This Lawyer Embraces Her Disability. Now She Fights For Others.

Episode Notes

Transcript

Montana Funk:

This is Young Lawyer Rising from the ABA Young Lawyers, Division and Legal Talk Network Listeners, welcome back. I’m your host, Montana Funk. Today I’m joined by Evita Nwosu-Sylvester. Evita began her career through Freddie Mac’s Attorney Center for Excellence program for recent law graduates where she rotated through various practice areas within the legal Division. After almost two years, she transitioned into a non-practicing role where she specializes in fair lending risk management. She’s originally from New Jersey and she graduated from Cornell Law School in May of 2020. Today, Evita joins me to talk about her passion, disability rights. I’m so excited to have her bring her perspective to the show. Evita, good morning. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

Thank you for having me.

Montana Funk:

How are you doing this morning?

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

I’m good.

Montana Funk:

Good. Are you at work right now?

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

So, yes, but I’m working from home, so I’m actually sitting in my kitchen right now.

Montana Funk:

Okay, that is lovely. So let’s start with something simple for our listeners. I kind of always like to introduce our guests a little bit to the listeners so they know who I’m talking with today. So I want you to just kind of explain to our listeners where you’re working, and I obviously know that that’s at Freddie Mac, but explain to them a little bit more about what is Freddie Mac and what do you do there?

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

So Freddie Mac is a mortgage finance company, so we are a government sponsored entity and our mission is to create stability, liquidity, and affordability to the housing market. So basically we help provide access to housing, to middle and low income communities by helping to finance housing.

Montana Funk:

Okay, awesome. You said that you’re working a lot to help middle, low income housing, sorry. You’re working to help the middle and low income families to find them supportive housing? Correct.

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

To give them access to housing? Correct. Yeah.

Montana Funk:

Awesome. Okay, so kind of sounds a little bit like a civil right aspect to it. Is that accurate for me to say?

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

That’s pretty accurate when it comes to my role, yes. My role is specifically about civil rights.

Montana Funk:

Awesome. Okay. So obviously you went to school, you went to law school, to Cornell. So explain to our listeners your journey about getting into law school and how you chose that path and then how it kind of brought you to what you’re doing right now with Freddie Mac.

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

Yeah, so my story is kind of non, I guess, traditional. I’m not someone who wanted to be a lawyer their whole life. I kind of just stumbled upon it kind of at the last minute, which I wouldn’t recommend to most people. But basically I went to undergrad and I was a psych major at the time, and at the time I thought I wanted to major in psychology and be a psychologist and I wanted to help people with disabilities. That was my main career goal. But I didn’t really know, I didn’t have a clear idea at the time in what capacity I wanted to do that in. But over time I started to realize that although I like psychology, I wasn’t necessarily super passionate about it enough to pursue a graduate degree. So it was the summer of my junior year and my family was kind of like, okay, what are you going to do with your life?

And I was like, I don’t know. And they kind of redirected me and recommended law as a possible option. And so we have a family friend that’s a lawyer, so I spoke to him. I spoke to other people that I knew that were in the legal profession and I did some research and I became convinced that maybe law would be a better path for me when it comes to helping people with disabilities because I would be able to make more of a broader impact, perhaps change policies rather than just working with people on an individual level and helping them deal with their emotional issues and stuff like that. So that’s how I decided upon law school and once I made the decision, it was really quick, I signed up for the LSAT that very same day. I did a six week accelerated program. Then I took the LSAT into my senior year and I applied to schools and I applied to a lot of schools and a lot of top ranked schools and then a few lower ranked schools, and I got waitlisted a lot, but Georgetown happened to be a school that I got into.

And then I also, I was originally waitlisted for Cornell, but then they sent me an email at the very last minute telling me that they had an opportunity for me. So then I jumped on the opportunity to go to Cornell just because of, obviously there’s a lot of prestige with Cornell and I just thought it would set me up for having the most opportunity, especially because I really didn’t have a clear, I guess, direction of what I wanted to do with law. So I wanted to go to the best school possible so I could give myself the most options. And that’s kind of how I decided on Cornell. That

Montana Funk:

Is kind of a really interesting path you took and I think that a lot of our listeners will be able to identify with the fact that maybe what they started out with was not where they ended up. I also had a psychology and sociology degree and then went into law after that. So I think it’s important to show that our listeners too, someone like you who knew you had a goal which is helping with people with disabilities but maybe decided on law later down the road. It kind of just shows our listeners that you can switch up the path that you’re on and it’s not a certain linear, I guess I should say, a linear journey to finding what degree you want and becoming a lawyer or even just getting a law degree in using it in other ways. So I want to break down a little bit about what you said, and I think we should start back from the beginning, which you said your goal was to help people with disabilities. So explain to our listeners why that’s important to you and what really sticks home to you about having disability yourself and working with people who do have disabilities.

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

So like you mentioned, I do identify as a person with a disability. It has impacted my life in some challenging ways, but also a lot of positive ways. And I just always wanted to make a difference with people with disabilities and just be an inspiration and show them that you can live your best life possible and you don’t have to let your circumstances limit you. I don’t know, I just always felt like that was my calling in some way to have a career where I’m helping people with disabilities like me or people with disabilities that are not necessarily like me, but have similar challenges to succeed in this world.

Montana Funk:

And I appreciate you opening up about that. And something I kind of want to ask you specifically is I’m aware that you suffer from mild cerebral palsy and I think that it’s important for our listeners to understand, first of all, just in a short form sentence, if you don’t mind explaining what that is and then talking to them about how maybe law school or even undergrad, how those schools helped foster an environment where you felt like you had support and if it was accessible and just stuff like that and things that you think could have helped throughout law school or maybe ways that the law school did help.

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

So I have mild cerebral palsy and cerebral palsy as I’m sure it’s a spectrum, so I’m more on the mild side. And so my disability is pretty much all physical. And so cerebral palsy it means, so it’s damage to areas of the brain that affect your motor functions. So basically doing anything physical is difficult for me for a long period of time. So whether it’s walking for a long period of time or running or standing, even sitting for a long period of time can be difficult for me. I also struggle with poor balance so I can easily fall. And then I also struggle with gross motor skills with doing certain things with my hands. So it really just affects my motor skills, my mobility in a physical way. And I do get tired easily from doing physical activity. So that’s kind of where my limitations are as far as college and law school.

So I’ll just say I started out at community college because I wasn’t ready to go off to the big university and I felt like I needed some time to get used to going to school by myself because growing up I had paraprofessional aides that would walk with me to and from classes, and their job was basically to make sure I was safe, make sure I was okay at all times. So I didn’t really know what it was like to be a normal teenager and be able to go to classes by myself and hang out with friends by myself in the hallway. So college for me was my first experience really being alone. So I kind of needed a little time to just get used to just that experience of going to classes and being with my friends by myself. And it was honestly amazing, one of the best, I would say the best two years of my entire life.

I made some really great friends there, really great classes, really great professors, and a lot of the professors that I had there also taught at the larger universities. So I was getting the same education for less money and I saved a lot of money. And I actually, I graduated, so I’m from New Jersey originally, and New Jersey has a program that where if you graduate in the top 15% of your class, you can go to community college tuition free. So I took advantage of that program and I was able to save a lot of money. So that helped me a lot going to community college to adjust just to being in school by myself. And then from there I transferred over to Rutgers University, which is a huge school in New Jersey. They have five campuses and you have to get on the highway to get to your next class if it’s in a different campus.

So it was a huge adjustment, but eventually I got the hang of it. And what really helped me was Rutgers through their disability services, they have a special advanced service for students with disabilities, so I didn’t have to use the regular bus to get to my classes. I had a personal van pretty much that would pick me up and take me building to building where I had to go, so I didn’t have to worry. I didn’t have the stress of getting on the crowded bus and finding a seat and figuring out where I had to go. So that helped out a lot. So I only really used the bigger buzz when I was doing personal things with my friends and stuff. So that definitely, I would say that service helped out a lot. I also had certain accommodations when I was in school helping with things like being able to record my classes because sometimes it would be difficult for me to take notes really fast and process the information sometimes.

So I had that as an accommodation to help me. And then when I got to Cornell, it was similar. I also had a special transportation service that would pick me up and take me to school every day. And Cornell is also a huge university. I would say it’s not as big as Rutgers, but it has that big university vibe. But I guess the difference about the law school is that it’s its own building, so you kind of get a small law school vibe. And then if I wanted to go outside the law school and meet other people, I also had that opportunity. So you kind of had the best of both worlds with Cornell.

Montana Funk:

And the reason why I ask is I think it’s important for listeners who face similar challenges to know what’s out there. If they’re going to somewhere or they’re starting in law school and they want to know what kind of things can help them or maybe what is available for them, it’s nice for them to have a perspective to say, okay, there may be some programs or like you said, a private van or note takers. So just giving our listeners the ability to ask and look into those different options. So I do want to take a quick break, but when I come back from the break, I do want to talk to you a little bit more about living with this disability and how it’s shaped your career. So before we went on the break, we were kind of talking about the accessibility aspect of law school and how it’s important to you to be an advocate for those disabilities. So something I want you to start off with if you wouldn’t mind, is what misconceptions do you think or maybe challenges do individuals who have disabilities face in the workforce?

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

I think there’s a lot of misconceptions. And honestly, I think it depends on the type of disability. People assume that people with disabilities are not competent, they can’t get the work done or that they’re getting special privileges and when they have to ask for accommodations and that the accommodations somehow impact their ability to get the work done. And another misconception is that accommodations can be expensive, and that’s actually not the case. Most accommodations are very affordable and very easy, and a lot of accommodations don’t cost anything at all. So I guess I would say the biggest misconception is just that hiring a person with a disability will be some sort of burden and it will be extra work or that they’re not going to work hard or they’re somehow not able or capable of doing the job.

Montana Funk:

No, absolutely. And do you think that there is a way that corporations can support individuals with disabilities and advocate for them in a way that makes these stereotypes less or that shows people this really isn’t something that should be hindering their ability to hire you or hire someone else who has interests? So how do you think corporations in general can be supportive?

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

I think the easy question is just to ask the person with a disability. Obviously you don’t come out, you would never come out right out the gate and ask someone, do you have a disability? That’s not allowed. But once the person discloses to you that they do have a disability or that they have certain needs, the best thing that you can do is just say, how can I support you? And I think as people with disabilities, especially people who have lived with their disabilities their entire life, they’re pretty knowledgeable about what they need. So I would just lean on them and just trust them to tell you what they need and what’s going to help them best. And also work with hr. Most companies have an HR department that handles and their job is to handle accommodation requests and work with employees and work with managers, and they have resources that can help as well.

There are also outside resources. A resource that I always recommend is, it’s called the Job Accommodation Network or Jan, and it’s through the Department of Labor, and it’s basically a website that has pretty much any disability that you could possibly think of listed on there. And on that website you can find examples of types of accommodations that would be needed for certain types of disabilities. So this is helpful not just for the employer, but also for the employee, because sometimes the reality is that sometimes as people with disabilities, we don’t always know what accommodations are out there for us, especially if we’re new to the workforce and we’re young, we’re just starting our career, that could be a great resource as well. They also have staff that you can call to inquire about types of accommodations that could be needed. That would be my biggest advice is just to ask how they can be of support, trust that they know what they need, and if not, there are resources that you can utilize to figure that thing out. But just I think the most important thing is to listen to the employee and work with them and work with HR as well.

Montana Funk:

I think that that’s all really helpful, not only for the listeners, but also for maybe corporations or firms or anyone who wants to also make sure that they’re approaching this in an appropriate and respectful manner. So I appreciate you offering that insight. I do want to take one more quick break, and when we get back, I want to talk a little bit more about your own personal advice to listeners that are maybe struggling with some challenges and what you would tell them. So Evita, I want you to tell our listeners, what advice do you have for young professionals or anyone in the workspace who is maybe facing a similar challenge as you and is feeling maybe down on themselves or unsure about how to excel in their career and what you can tell them to make sure that they’re feeling strong and proud and going into work feeling like they’re the best that they can possibly be?

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

I would say just know that you’re not alone. Unfortunately, disability is still very stigmatized in society and a lot of people don’t like to talk about their disabilities or disclose their disabilities. So sometimes you can go your whole life thinking you’re the only one dealing with such and such disability. No one understands you, but in reality, there are people out there that are going through the same struggles. People just have to be open enough and be willing to talk about it in order to discover that. And then once you do that, you have so much support. My company, for example, we have business resource groups, which are basically affinity groups, and we have one for employees with disabilities, but also allies. So that’s an opportunity for employees with disabilities to meet other employees that maybe deal with similar issues, maybe if it’s not the same disability, but maybe similar challenges.

And in this group, we work together. It’s not only just a support group, but our mission is to talk about how can we make the work environment accessible the most accessible and the most inclusive place it can be for people with disabilities. I would say if your company has business resource groups or some companies called an employee resource groups, definitely take advantage of those. I would say not every corporation has a disability affinity group, which is unfortunate, but if there is one, definitely don’t be afraid to reach out and get involved and get plugged in with that and just know that you’re not alone and that you have differences. But those differences, they don’t have to define you in a negative way. They can be an advantage to you in a lot of positive ways. You just have to, I guess, look at it from a different perspective.

Montana Funk:

And I think that that’s really good for people to hear that. Like you said, shaping your perspective and just going in and being proud of who you are and knowing you’re not alone is really important. And I know that earlier in this conversation, you and I had discussed how you were hoping that through this law degree you’d be able to reach maybe a more broad spectrum of people and really through your work too that you’re currently doing, touch people and really be able to help them through these things and be an advocate for people with disabilities. So, or I guess I should say, how do you find that not only has your law degree, but your career path allowed you to be this voice and reach out to people with disabilities and be this advocate for them?

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

Yeah, so I would say just like my decision to go to law school in the first place wasn’t very traditional or linear. My journey in law school wasn’t linear either. I went to law school with the idea that I was going to maybe go into disability rights, and then Cornell is a prestigious school and they’re known for placing people in big law firms. So then I kind of got caught up in that whole thing, and I felt like I had to do what everyone else was doing because I was going to have debt that I needed to pay off. So I got kind of sucked into that for a while, and then I had to redirect and realize what I really came to law school to do. And then that’s when I kind of committed and said, this is I want to be an advocate, even if it’s not in a traditional way as a disability rights lawyer, that’s something that I want to do.

So I would say that in law school, so Cornell doesn’t really have disability focused classes, so I wasn’t really able to specialize in disability rights law, so I kind of just had to carve my own path and seek out opportunities through my internships and externship opportunities. So it was kind of through my summer internship opportunities where I got exposure to disability related opportunities. One that comes to mind right now is a program that I did back in 2019 through the American Association of People with Disabilities, and they have a summer internship program that they do every year for graduate students and college students with disabilities. And they place them in a variety of areas in a variety of places within the DC area. And so I got placed at a company, it was a healthcare company, but I didn’t do specifically disability focused work, but part of the program was we got to also do a disability advocacy certificate program where we got to learn about what are the issues that people with disabilities are facing when it comes to education or healthcare or employment, different things like that.

So my law school journey was just through my disability exposure was just through the opportunities that I created for myself while I was there. And then in my job now I work in what’s called fair lending. So fair lending is the civil rights of the mortgage industry. So that’s why I said in the beginning, you were right on target when you said, my job is civil rights, literally what it is. So we’re trying to make sure that our company specifically, we focus on risk management, and we’re making sure that our company, specifically our Division, is not creating fair lending risk for the company. So meaning that they’re not discriminating against any protected classes when it comes to making sure that they have access to housing or credit and things like that. And disability is a protected class. So there are opportunities in my work to incorporate that disability passion.

Unfortunately, due to other pressing deadlines, I haven’t really been able to focus on disability as much as I would like to, but that definitely is a goal for the future. So I would say most of my disability work that I’ve done since I’ve been working is just through my abilities. The business resource group that I mentioned in the beginning, I’m on the leadership team for that. And we do a lot of awareness events. So I’ve done a lot of advocacy through that group. And then I also came up with a presentation with one of my coworkers while I was in the legal Division on neurodiversity, and we talked about what is neurodiversity and how it impacts people in the workplace and the gifts that neurodiverse individuals can bring to the workforce. And if you’re not familiar neurodiversity, it’s kind of like an umbrella term for people that have learning disabilities like autism and A DHD and whatnot.

And so my coworker identifies as neurodiverse. So we kind of came together to do this presentation, and we’ve been doing this roadshow across our company, presenting it to different divisions, and then we also recently started doing external presentations. So I would say the way that I’ve been able to make an impact for the community in my job is through just my disability inclusion and diversity efforts outside of just my main role for right now, but I’m always looking for opportunities to insert that disability passion in my work. And I think I have faith that it, there will be opportunities very soon.

Montana Funk:

And it sounds like you’re doing amazing work and really needed work. So I appreciate you coming on here to talk to us about that. And it sounds like these presentations that you’re doing are something that probably isn’t talked about enough and should be. So yeah, I think you’re doing amazing work with that. And something that I’m curious is do you have any advice or is there anything you would like to see either schools or companies or organizations do that would make the path for individuals with disabilities to have more support or feel like they’re going to be set up for success throughout their journey of school and career?

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

Yeah, so I would say my advice to companies is to be more, I guess, proactive and less reactive. I think right now in most companies, the process is set up and all of the burden is put on the employee with the disability to disclose, to reach out to their employer to ask for the things that they need. But the reality is, like I mentioned, some people will never disclose because of stigma. So I think companies should start to move more towards universal design and thinking about what are the ways that we can change our environment so that it can be the most inclusive environment as possible for all people of all abilities regardless, so that they may not even need to submit an accommodation request, but it could just be part of the fabric of the way that the company operates.

Montana Funk:

Yeah, that sounds like that would be super helpful. And I think that you offering this insight itself is another way that you’re helping the community for people who can listen to this podcast too. And you had mentioned many organizations that I’d never heard about, and I’m sure a lot of people haven’t. And so even just coming on here talking just in general about what could be better, what misconceptions people have, I hope that this episode can kind of help, obviously not end the stigma, but help listeners who are struggling to be like, yeah, it’s not abnormal as people sometimes make it, and it’s not fair that there is these stigmas that surround, like you said, hiring someone who may have a disability. Because a lot of the times, I’m sure that the disabilities are also kind of invisible in a sense, and you’re not going to just ask them straight up, do you have a disability? So I think what you’ve offered is really, really important and helpful, and I know that, like I said, you had mentioned a bunch of different organizations and presentations that you have done on top of this to kind of help. So if you don’t mind just ending this episode, telling our listeners where they can find you, where can find these resources and where they can find some of the work that you’ve done.

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

So you can find me on my LinkedIn at my first and last name, Evita Nwosu-Sylvester. So you can read about my background there. As far as some of my presentation materials, you can reach out to me through my work email or my personal email, and I can share with you the information that I have presented. Also, if you are interested in a presentation, if you belong to a company or an organization that would be interested in a presentation on neurodiversity, feel free to reach out to me and I can work with my coworker to get that set up. Yeah, so I would say my work email and then my LinkedIn is where you can reach me.

Montana Funk:

Perfect. Well, Evita, I appreciate it so much you coming on here today and talking about this and being so open with me, and I’m hoping that our listeners can take away some positive aspects from this episode. And like you said, be proud of everyone who you are and that you’re not alone in these situations. So thank you so much for joining me today.

Evita Nwosu-Sylvester:

Thank you for having me and giving me this opportunity and platform.

Montana Funk:

Of course. Well listeners, that’s our show. Thank you as always for tuning in. If you like what you heard today, please feel free to share this show with a friend as well. Please feel free to share your own 2023 reflection. You can find a link in the description of our show. Until next time, I’m your host, Montana Funk, and you’ve been listening to Young Lawyer Rising, brought to you by the ABA Young Lawyers, Division and the professionals at Legal Talk Network.

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