Perfect Albums, Vol 6; Straightforward Marketing for Your Law Firm; & “Don’t Sweat It!”

Episode Notes

Transcript

Announcer:

It’s Legal Toolkit with Jared Correia with guests Ashley Robinson. We play a round of dope sweat. And then do we have any patent attorneys in the audience? He may not be handy, but Jared’s an idea man and his brainstorms are ready to make it rain. But first, your host Jared Correia.

Jared Correia:

It’s time for the Legal Toolkit podcast where it’s coming up on sweater weather. Everybody watch out and yes, it’s still called the Legal Toolkit podcast, despite the fact that I have absolutely no idea what a block plane is, I Google image search to in fact, and it just looks like one of those things that measure your shoe size 11 and a half. By the way, I’m your host Jared Correia. You’re stuck with me because Kent Brockman was unavailable. He’s developing his new True Crime podcast. Guilty grandpa. I’m the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm consulting, a business management consulting service for attorneys and bar associations. Find us online at redcavelegal.com. Now, before we get to our interview today about marketing with Ashley Robinson from Green Cardigan Marketing, I wanted to take a moment to once again revisit my favorite time period, the nineties, the 1990s, no jokes as we add another perfect album to our collection.

Most pop stars, including the ones we most recently spoke about here on the toolkit, the Beach Boys and the Beatles started out really, really young. Most of the guys who founded those bands were really not guys at all. They were just boys. Some well under the age of 18, and traditionally it’s just been a lot of teenagers launching as musical creators. I mean, Tara Swift feels like she’s been around forever, but she didn’t take over the world right away, and it feels like she’s been around forever because she released her debut album when she was just 16. It’s a great album, by the way. Some musicians don’t break through until their twenties, those geriatric musicians. And then there’s Cheryl Crowe, the Grandma Moses of the pop scene whose debut album came out when she was 31 years old in 1993. That is quite the rarity now in the year of our Lord 2024.

She’s 62 with a 30 plus year in music career as a solo artist in the rear view, and she was even inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame back in 2023. Not bad for a late start. Of course, it’s not entirely accurate to say that Sheryl Crow’s music career began in 1993 because that’s only when she broke through to popular acclaim before that. She was certainly involved in the music industry in a number of ways, including possibly most famously, I think a lot of people know this working as a backup singer from Michael Jackson on The Bad Tour in the late nineties, but she also acted as a songwriter for popular artists, contributed her own songs to soundtracks, including The Stone Cold Movie. Yes, that’s right. Sheryl Crow wrote a song for the Brian Bosworth movie and she even appeared on the television show Cop Rock, which is maybe the worst idea for a television show ever conceived.

And she did also work with producer Hugh Padam, who did a lot of fine work with Genesis to record a self-titled debut album that was set to release in 1992. Only it didn’t. It was scrapped because Crow felt that it was too slickly produced. Of course, that record’s been bootlegged, so if you want to, you can listen to it online with all of its slick production. So a year later was when things really hit for her. Tuesday Night Music Club. Her real debut album actually releases in 1993, and this album generated a staggering six singles, which I did not know, the fourth of which is called All I Want To Do, and that really blew up. All I want to do is have some fun. That’s a song, a Sheryl Crow song that everyone knows. That’s where she answers the public consciousness. And you probably remember the video too.

If you’re old enough, I do. Another single release from that album Leaving Las Vegas was later featured on the soundtrack for the movie of the same name for which Nicholas Cage? Yes, that Nicholas Cage won the best actor statue at the 1996 Academy Awards. The last two singles were strong enough and Can’t Cry anymore, and those are really good songs too. Now this album was called Tuesday Night Music Club because it was something of a group project. So Show Crow was working with no fewer than six other musicians on this record. They call themselves the Tuesday Night Music Club. They helped to develop the lyrics, but they also helped to create her sound. And that group included her then boyfriend, Kevin Gilbert. And if you are wondering how important Kevin Gilbert was to the Sheryl Crow ethos, ask yourself, have you ever heard of Kevin Gilbert before? I just mentioned his name.

Now this is important to know when we’re talking about how Sheryl Crow sound has evolved over time, which is what we’re going to talk a little bit about. Tuesday Night Music Club, the album is very light in Airy, it’s kind of hardcore pop, like straight up bubblegum pop. Now it’s good, don’t get me wrong, but her sound evolves over time to become more rock and blues focused and her lyrics become very much her own with loss of winding and convoluted pop culture references, which are quite fancy actually. And she dropped the Group Act. As she moves forward, she’s writing more and more of her own songs defining more and more for sound. So for the next evolution in the Sheryl Crow songbook, so this is a self-titled album, but it actually releases and that’s 1990 six’s Sheryl Crow. I probably need to tell you that you probably figured it out from this self-titled album par for this album.

She reduces her songwriting team. She writes a lot of tracks solo. Now I like Tuesday Night Music Club. I bought the album. I actually think I bought the cassette tape, but I was really into the Sheryl Crow album. It just had a harder vibe to it. This came out when I was a freshman in college and my roommate would get so annoyed when I would listen to it on high volume on headphones late at night when I was working on a project. Yeah, I’m kind of a dick, but hey, his favorite band was the Smashing Pumpkins. So I had to listen to that nasally Bitch Billy Corgan all the time. So I feel like we’re even now, this is still definitely a pop album with the most memorable single being. Every day is a winding road. You know that one that’s epically catchy, but there’s a song called Maybe Angels that kicks off the album, and that’s the song about aliens.

So I’m in on that, but it’s also much G Grier than anything. On Tuesday Night Music Club, A Change Would Do You Good is a little bit folksy with some darker undercurrents and those get extended to the track if it makes you happy, which was another radio hit, which is a little bit bluesier than anything else she had done to that point. And then she writes this song, redemption Day, which is something of a protest song and a vain of Bob Marley and the Great Johnny Cash. Remember him. He covers that song on his posthumous 2010 album, American Six Ain’t No Grave. Now my favorite song in the album is probably Hard to Make a Stand, which I feel like should have been a massive hit. I’m still surprised it. And if you want to get a visual feel for how much different and better this album is than the first one, look no further than the images used on the respective album covers.

I’ll let you do that on your own time. Take a look at those album covers. But the best was yet to come as Sheryl Crow was set to release The Globe Sessions in 1998 and the Globe Sessions named after the studio where they were recorded is a perfect album. This is Eye Point of the Sheryl Crow catalog, which I celebrate obviously is also one of my favorite albums ever. So this is a continuation, the evolution from Tuesday Night Music Club to Cheryl Crow. It’s just a little bit harder, a little bit more aggressive. It’s even more rock and less pop. There’s more blues, there’s a ton more experimentation. There’s ambient sounds, there’s a hidden track. The lyrics are easily the best she’s ever written in my opinion, as she continues to take more and more of the songwriting load on. And the album is more raw than anything she’d ever done before.

Every track is excellent for real and there’s no filler. And I would recommend if you go out and listen to this album, which you definitely should do so in its purest form, and that means the original 11 tracks, not the boosted version with the cover of Sweet Child of Mine from Big Daddy on it, that’s just okay. But those 11 songs, the original album Release, my Opinion, perfect album. So what is going on in this album Extravaganza? You may be asking yourself, let me start at the top. My favorite mistake is the lead track and it’s the lead single, and this is pretty much peak Sheryl Crow. It starts off like windup toy, yet it quickly flows into a plaintiff lovers lament before inextricably converting into this amazing pot hook and then in fact to blues wrists again. But Sheryl Crow has this amazing ability to write these insanely catchy hooks for all of her songs.

This is effectively Sheryl Crow’s version of Your Soul Vein, a song about a rake who’s stepping out on Sheryl Crow. I mean, come on. Potentially another of her exes. Erich Clapton, slow hand deed. I never liked that dude. Anyway, now the best track on this album is called Members Only, which is unfortunately kind of buried and not very well known, but this is a peppy little number. The Tell Us Down is Spa Spas and there’s some great guitar drum and organ work in here. The song starts out talking about this old guy who still thinks he’s hot and his member’s only jacket from the eighties, somebody’s uncle. This song also contains maybe my favorite Sheryl Crow line of the mall mocking a popular late nineties catch phrase, which you may have heard. She goes, my friend Greg says, it’s all good while the Eastern Seaboards blown away.

As it turns out, Greg, it’s not all good, and I dunno if there’s a more certain indication of how much Sheryl Crow is feeling herself on this album than the fact that she took Bob Dylan up on an offer to record one of its unreleased tracks from the time out of mind sessions. That’s the Mississippi is still the best recorded version of this song by a wide margin in my opinion. Wishlist also includes Dylan’s own version of the song, which he released in 2001. Sheryl Crow’s vocal progression on this song is honestly quite impressive. It Don’t Hurt is another exceptional track. Something I was saying to my mom when I fell in the early eighties. There’s actually an extended beat in here about a vibrator, and that’s got to be one of the boldest such sentiments in pop music after the guys in Steely Dan just outright naming themselves after a steam power dildo.

I mean, I’m all in heartbreaker of a song, raging guitar solo, the difficult, kind, powerful ballad about how one partner in a relationship really wants to change but probably hasn’t, or at least the other partner is no longer willing to believe in the potential for that change. This song also has a memorable lyric in it. She references the Ball Breaking moon and ridiculing stars. I mean, I’m certain the werewolves feel the same exact way. We’ve also got a slide guitar in here and organ work from Mont Tench of Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers who actually plays on several tracks on this album. Maybe that something is another overlooked gem on this masterpiece of an album. After the intro, it changes tone subtly before an abrupt shift into this driving guitar part. This song also contains a rather cheeky lyric, which is we lay around just like gurus and borrowed robes and talk about nothing, which sounds like a shot.

Paul McCartney would’ve taken it John Lennon in an early seventies disc track. Now think about this for a second. I’m pretty deep into the track list at this point and I haven’t even gotten to the two remaining singles from this album. The other was my favorite Mistake, which I mentioned first. Those are anything but down and there goes the neighborhood. The former got a lot of radio play. This is probably the most traditional Sheryl Crow song on the album, meaning it’s most like a song that would’ve appeared on her first two albums, but the upbeat tone sort of obscures the rather thoroughly depressing and town beat lyrics, which are about another crumbling relationship. Stop me if you’ve heard this before. The video for this song kicks off the Sheryl Crow short hair era, which reached its peak during her 1999 Central Park concert. That concert, by the way, was released as an album called Sheryl Crow and Friends live from Central Park.

I feel like it’d be pretty badass to play Central Park and actually I have a bunch of people show up. That was the follow up to the Globe Sessions incidentally, and that one’s definitely worth the listen to is well given the plethora of special guests and interesting cover songs in there, ghost and Neighborhood, we’ve got lots of social critiques and even a Peter OV reference, this song has kind of got a Niros fiddling as Rome burns down vibe superimposed on Americans doing an ain shit while the apocalypse finds us. And this was before smartphones were even really a thing. Yeah, the trend has been downward for a little while. Am I getting through as a two part song? Effectively it’s kind of like sweet. It’s really about the fragility of the human psyche, but it does feature another one of those crazy Sheryl Crow pop hooks in the chorus as well as this nifty rousing coda at the End River Wide last song on the album I haven’t talked about yet.

That’s a slow moving ballad that kicks off with a reference to the story of Jonah and the Whale. How about that? And the song ends with the singer begging an offscreen antagonist not to bail on her. Well, don’t worry, Sheryl Crow, I would never bail on you. Now, Sheryl Crow has done a ton of interesting things post the Globe sessions, like producing a whole host of Pavier albums and his singles as well as winning more Grammys. But this was as good as it got for Sheryl Crow. It’s hard to top perfection. And you know what? That’s something to crow about. Now that we’ve gone around and around on the Globe Sessions, let’s talk with Ashley Robinson from Green Cardigan Marketing about crushing paid advertising in the law firm environment. But before we get to that interview, let’s hear a little something, something from our sponsors. Alright, everybody, let’s get back after it. It’s time for the meat in the middle of this legal podcasting sandwich. Today’s meat is spam. It’s the official meat type ubstance of Hawaii, and it’s delicious fried. All right, enough of all this Thomas foolery. Let’s get to it today on the Legal Toolkit. We’ve arrived at our interview and for that we’ve got Ashley Robinson, who’s the founder and CEO at Green Cardigan Marketing. Ashley, welcome to the show. How you doing?

Ashley Robinson:

What’s up Jared? So happy to be here.

Jared Correia:

Little Inside Baseball took me about 25 minutes to start this podcast, but here we are.

Ashley Robinson:

Here we are. And she’s been very kind. We’ve made it

Jared Correia:

Now. We had a lot of discussions about a lot of things. One of which, Ashley, you seem to be the only person from Alabama who could not give two shits about Alabama or Auburn football. How does that happen?

Ashley Robinson:

You quoted me word for word. Sorry, mom.

Jared Correia:

Is that what you said? Okay. Sorry,

Ashley Robinson:

Mom. Two shots were the exact verbiage.

Jared Correia:

Sorry. Ashley’s mom.

Ashley Robinson:

I don’t know, Jared. I just think it’s overrated to be honest. I played golf, I played golf all childhood and high school and college. That was my only focus and my family just wasn’t a diehard football fan. So I don’t know, I just never, I felt like it was so overrated. I’ve always wanted to be a little different, so I feel like it was a little overrated. Are you a football fan?

Jared Correia:

Kind of. I’m sort of ambivalent.

Ashley Robinson:

Okay. Seems familiar.

Jared Correia:

Like the Patriots.

Ashley Robinson:

I like

Jared Correia:

The Giants before that when I was a kid, so I’m on neither side of Roll Tide or War Eagle. Sorry everybody.

Ashley Robinson:

It’s our hot take of the day.

Jared Correia:

Go listen to the CFB podcast that we have on Legal Tide Network away. We don’t have one of those. Alright, before we get to real legal stuff, you were a division one golfer, is that true?

Ashley Robinson:

I was. It’s

Jared Correia:

True. That’s kind of crazy.

Ashley Robinson:

It’s very true. Yeah, I played

Jared Correia:

How does one get that good at golf?

Ashley Robinson:

How does one get that good at golf? They spend a lot of time playing golf, a lot of time practicing. I got into golf when I was very little, eight, nine,

Announcer:

Played

Ashley Robinson:

All through high school. Only girl on my high school team get a full scholarship to Jackson State University, play only American on the women’s team all four years, played there on the team and then after college I attempted to play professionally. So I played two years on a little mini tour, obviously didn’t work out and here I am.

Jared Correia:

Can I say I feel like being a professional golfer would be the best lifestyle. I could

Ashley Robinson:

Agree.

Jared Correia:

You come in 54th place and you’re making seven figures and you just live in Florida, that sounds pretty good.

Ashley Robinson:

I mean, it’s very difficult traveling nonstop. So you’re living out of a suitcase. It’s not all that is cracked up to be. Now if you are one of the top performing players in the world, of course it is just like any other sport, right? But it was fun. I’m glad I did it. I was young, I tried. I knew I wasn’t going to be the best. I just wanted to try to see if I could do it. So I did for two years. It was cool and then went and started working in my degree.

Jared Correia:

So what you do now is marketing for law firms. So you gave up your golf dreams, sadly. How did you get into this? It’s not necessarily a logical next

Ashley Robinson:

Step. What? You can’t make the connection there. No,

Jared Correia:

I’m struggling.

Ashley Robinson:

Yeah. So after college I start working in marketing and I was in automotive marketing. My career kind of landed me in automotive marketing for a bigger company. Knew I always want to do my own thing, always want to have my own business. Didn’t know what it was, couldn’t figure out what it was. I wanted it to be in marketing. So I started doing marketing for a criminal defense lawyer in Atlanta on the side, just helping ’em out. The more I start to peel back that onion, I’m like, holy shit, the marketing’s really bad. He starts telling a friend who tells a friend. So I get five or six lawyers under my belt. They all are being taken advantage of by some of these big box marketing companies, meaning straight up fraudulent. I’m looking at their invoice and they’re being billed for monthly SEO and you dig into it and these companies are just hosting their website and I’m like, there’s no way they’re doing SEO. They’re charging you like 1100 bucks a month. There’s no way that’s some shitty SEO or they’re lying. So I start digging into it and it’s like, oh yeah, they’re really taking advantage of you. So it was born out of just a true necessity and so it just kind of stumbled upon of I want to do my own thing. I really like marketing, had no interest or need to know about legal marketing, but one plus one, I was like, oh, this is a thing.

Jared Correia:

So your first clients were law firms? They talk, it

Ashley Robinson:

Grows. Yes. First client was that criminal defense lawyer in Atlanta who then tells he’s in a building with three or four or five other guys and next thing I know I’m like five or six solo practitioners deep and I’m like, okay, this is quit my job and started doing it full time.

Jared Correia:

When you’re rolling like six solo practitioners deep, I mean you’re like, okay, product market fit, we’re ready to go. How did you niche down to the family loss stuff? Did it just happen or was that an intentional approach for you?

Ashley Robinson:

No, again, we just stumbled into it of recognizing the clients that we were making the biggest impact for. Were all family in estate. I have a business coach and a couple of years ago he asked me, who are your favorite clients? Who have you seen the most growth with? Who do you enjoy working with? And I make a list and they were all family and estate. Our base of what we do here is organic marketing, so SEO websites, email, all of that stuff works really well for family estate, ip, immigration, lawyers. So we’ve just niched down. It’s also just a good channel of referrals for us. So it’s worked. It’s been our focus. Not long, I would say less than a year. It’s been a real intentional, let’s go after more family and estate and see what happens. So it’s been fun. Again, we still work with clients in all practice areas, but who we intentionally try to go after are family or state lawyers.

Jared Correia:

And they also don’t market very often

Ashley Robinson:

Like family

Jared Correia:

Lawyers. So it’s kind of like a fallow field for you to

Ashley Robinson:

It is. And they really struggle with follow up, especially the trust and estate side. They have the clients, they just suck at follow up and nurturing

Jared Correia:

That client. Even like basic remarketing campaigns,

Ashley Robinson:

Yes, just remarketing to that client database. Those clients of yours should be clients of yours and their kids should be clients of yours and their neighbors and their friends. And you’re sitting on a lot of money in your firm CRM and in your database. You’re just not remarketing them. You’re not reminding them of your services and they need to contact you. So it’s just a re-engagement campaign. So again, we’ve just found that what we do and kind of the process we’ve built is really working and we’re seeing some great ROI with those clients. And so let’s go for more. Let’s see how we can help more family and estate lawyers with just the strategies that we’ve already started implementing.

Jared Correia:

Why’d you name your business after a sweater?

Ashley Robinson:

Come on, Jared. You can’t make the connection between golf. Let me see if you can,

Jared Correia:

I know nothing about golf. Is it like a green jacket thing?

Ashley Robinson:

Yes.

Jared Correia:

Is that like Augusta? Okay,

Ashley Robinson:

There you go. Look at you. It

Jared Correia:

Is like green jacket trademarked or something like that.

Ashley Robinson:

It is.

Jared Correia:

Okay. So green cardigan is the next best thing.

Ashley Robinson:

It’s the next best thing. Okay. So I’m starting my business.

Jared Correia:

Beautiful. Well played.

Ashley Robinson:

Thank you. And I’m wanting to give an homage or a nod to golf. My love for golf, my time in golf. I wanted the name to be something about golf. So I’m searching for things and my husband and I are going to the masters that year. My

Jared Correia:

Husband Is your husband golf as well?

Ashley Robinson:

Yeah. He played professionally. He was a golf course superintendent and now

Jared Correia:

He was living the dream.

Ashley Robinson:

He was, he’s living the dream now he’s married to me. So he was a golf course superintendent. I had to get that one in there and he’s in golf sales now. So I don’t know, I just stumbled upon, I heard something on the radio or I was thinking about the masters or something. I came to the conclusion of green cardigan, do a quick search. The only thing you see with green cardigans are Dillards, Macy’s, old lady green cardigans. I’m like, okay, there’s not any competition. If I’m marketing, I can’t be competition. And I didn’t want some boring name of Ashley’s legal marketing.

Jared Correia:

I wanted it be No, I think that’s great.

Ashley Robinson:

Different. So that’s where we landed

Jared Correia:

Old ladies. They fucking love those green cardigans.

Ashley Robinson:

They do.

Jared Correia:

So I was looking through some of your stuff before we started podcasting because while most people probably think I don’t do anything and just show up for the show, that’s mostly untrue. So can we talk a little bit about, you have this approach related to narrow focused marketing campaigns, which I think is interesting. So can you tell people about what that means?

Ashley Robinson:

Narrow focus is in our family and estate. I’d like to think of it on both sides of the equation. So for us, we narrow our focus and then for our clients too, we try to get incredibly specific with our clients of who is your client avatar and are we targeting them where they’re at? Let’s not cast as many nets. There’s just too much damn competition to just cast these really broad nets with marketing. So let’s get hyper-focused and let’s obsess over your clients. Where are they at spending their money? What interests do they have? What do they drive? What are their hobbies? Where are their passions? And let’s target them where they’re at. Our clients are not massive law firms. They’re small to medium sized law firms.

Jared Correia:

Yeah, I think if you’re not in the legal space, family law firms don’t really get that big.

Ashley Robinson:

No, they don’t. Our ideal client is three to 10 partners. That’s a pretty common sweet spot for us. So let’s be intentional with our marketing and let’s be hyperfocused on who this person is, where they’re at, and target them and meet them where they’re at. So it’s on both sides of the equation of us being hyper-focused and then us being hyper-focused for our clients. Jim?

Jared Correia:

Yeah, so Taylor’s solutions, which makes a ton of sense. Let’s talk a little bit, so you mentioned ROI, which is return on investment, which is sort of like this catchall metric. Let’s get a little bit more specific. What kind of metrics do you think firms need to be capturing to judge the success of a marketing campaign or marketing campaigns?

Ashley Robinson:

So for every marketing channel there is a different expected ROI.

Jared Correia:

Wait, you just did. It depends. Nicely done. That’s how I know you work with lawyers.

Ashley Robinson:

There you go. You’re welcome. I’m in marketing and I work with lawyers. Can you tell?

Jared Correia:

Yes.

Ashley Robinson:

So just the marketing channel is going to predict that. The ROI that you should expect, there are a few people out there. They give some advice in my opinion of blanket statements. For every dollar you spend, you should see a 10 XROI on that dollar. That’s just not

Jared Correia:

True. Yeah, you

Ashley Robinson:

Hear that lie. It’s just not true. I guarantee you there are consultants saying that meaning they’re not having to do the work and they’re not looking at the data every day. If you’re a personal injury lawyer and you’re trying to 10 x every dollar you spend on paid ads, you’re just not going to happen. You’re going to get a great 10 x on a certain type of campaign, but you’re going to get maybe a three x on other campaigns. So ROI is just going to vary based on your practice area, based on your budget, based on your geo area, based on the marketing channel. Again, you can’t give blanket statements. It depends. There’s so many. So again, with our clients, well first of all, are you spending adequate amounts of money? So if you’re looking to grow your firm, you should be spending between eight and 12% of your gross revenue. I was just on a call yesterday with a client who’s just losing her mind over her firm, not growing. She’s spending 3% of her gross revenue on marketing. Look, I mean, I can only do so much. We’ve only got a little to work with here. So are you spending adequate amounts of money? Are you spending the appropriate amount of your budget? If so, then you should see positive return on the different marketing channels that you’re investing in

Jared Correia:

And you’re judging each of those campaigns separately. That makes sense.

Ashley Robinson:

Absolutely. Separately, and there’s so many different ways you can track that. First of all, your phone calls, we’ve got to have trackable phone numbers and we’ve got to have them a separate tracking phone number, distinguished per marketing channel. Are we tracking all the metrics on your website, your landing page or the webinars or again, whatever form of channel they may be. So nurture campaigns are a really important part of the marketing channels that we build for estate clients. They should be re-engaging on the front end before the console and on the backend. And those are really easy to look at those campaigns and tie those dollars back to retained clients. It’s a pretty easy metric to track. So you can track metrics. I hear a lot from clients thinking you can’t, you can, it’s just not as easy blanket statement to say 10 x on every dollar I spend.

Jared Correia:

Okay, let’s talk about intake. So one of the things I traditionally see with law firms is that they’re going to spend a lot of money on marketing and then they have no intake program whatsoever. So they have no way to judge the success of any marketing plans, including the existing one. So how important is it to put together an intake pipeline before you engage a marketing agency, and then how do you do it?

Ashley Robinson:

Oh my god. Okay. Intake. Yeah, your intake process is so invaluable if you do not have a buttoned up intake process. We’ve built this beautiful vehicle, but you have no fuel for the vehicle, nothing is going to work. You are just monumentally wasting your money. Is this

Jared Correia:

A Tesla?

Ashley Robinson:

It’s a Tesla. Sorry. That’s great. Jared. That was great. It’s so important. So we see often with our clients, again, we’re tracking their phone calls and we will call our clients out of, Hey guys, we see that we had 25% of our calls were missed this month. Either we got to get our shit together or we’re going to pause services. We can’t because you’re going to end up leaving and tell all your friends about how bad we were, but we see that we’ve increased your leads by 18%, but you’re not answering your phones. Or of course your LSAs aren’t showing up, you’re not answering the phones and Google’s put you in the penalty box. So it is wildly important. I think we all can agree to that, but you’re right that I think a lot of times law firms don’t even know where to start. A good way to start is you submit some test calls and contact forms for your firm and see what’s missing. Poke holes in the intake process and see what’s missing. There are many layers to the intake process. It depends your firm being how large your firm is. If you’re a solo practitioner that looks vastly different than that 15 person family law firm in Atlanta. That’s a very different intake process.

Jared Correia:

So if somebody comes to you and they don’t have an intake process of any kind, do you help them? Do you try to direct ’em to other resources? How do you get beyond that? I

Ashley Robinson:

Would try to direct them to other resources. If we can help ’em, we will. Oftentimes it’s a solo practitioner and we’re just, it’s not going to be a good fit for us. So do what I can. We do have some more DIY options we can give them and help set up and then they run it and that conversation is, look, when you grow, we would love to reengage with you. If that’s your goal, I’ll give you as much advice and help as I can or connect you with someone who can help get you to that level and then we will probably be a good fit for you once that happens.

Jared Correia:

Okay. This has been delightful. I have one more question for you. So what should law firms be utilizing for technology around marketing? And did they set that up themselves? Do they work with people to do that? What do you like to see people using? What do you employ?

Ashley Robinson:

Gosh, okay. To start often, I see law firms really lacking in the technology realm. Would you agree? Is that why you teed up this question?

Jared Correia:

Yeah, because their technology is a fucking Excel spreadsheet.

Ashley Robinson:

It’s disaster.

Jared Correia:

So could we get a CRM in here? Could we do call tracking? What are we going to

Ashley Robinson:

Do? Yeah, so you took the first one out, which again is sometimes this could be a deal breaker for us if we just can’t work with you, especially if we’re going to build nurture campaigns,

Jared Correia:

Right? You got to be able to track it.

Ashley Robinson:

You have to have a CRM. I have friends on both of the big CRM platforms and I know other small ones, and I’ve worked with, I think we have clients in just about every C.

Jared Correia:

We’re talking HubSpot and Salesforce, right? Just so people know

Ashley Robinson:

Or Clio and

Jared Correia:

Oh, Clio grow. Oh,

Ashley Robinson:

Clio grow. Look,

Jared Correia:

Wow,

Ashley Robinson:

Jesus Lawmatics. So just the two like legal based are probably our biggest clients are Clio and Lawmatics. But you have to have a CRM. So number one, technology is CRM. Does it have to be a legal focused CRM? No. If you want to go HubSpot, if you want to go active campaign, it doesn’t have to be. It depends. Again, let’s have that conversation of what type of marketing are you doing? How big is your firm? What is your intake team look like? I’ll give you my advice. I have no affiliations with CRM, so I can give you honest advice. So CRM call tracking. Yes, you need to be tracking your phone calls. If you’re doing any marketing, what type of technology are you using to read the data? Do you have a marketing vendor who’s giving you the data, but at least look at it, at least make yourself familiarize yourself with if your firm is sending out emails on their own, familiarize yourself with what is your open rate, what is your click-through rate. Those are more on the marketing side, the technologies, I don’t know. There are other technologies that I’m probably missing. Those are the biggest ones that impact us though. What’s your answer to that? Jared? I mean

Jared Correia:

Mine just

Ashley Robinson:

Focusing

Jared Correia:

Marketing. I didn’t need to give, have an exhaustive list.

Ashley Robinson:

No, but tell me what is yours?

Jared Correia:

I’m getting a CRM. I’m getting a call tracking system. I am probably trying to integrate that with case management software and maybe my county software. I’m relying on the reports. I thought that was a pretty good explanation. Kudos to you, Ashley. This was great. I really enjoyed myself. Will you hang around for one final segment?

Ashley Robinson:

Of course. I would love to. Jared.

Jared Correia:

Okay. This is going to be great. So everybody, we’ll take one final break so you can hear more about our sponsor companies and their latest service offerings. Then stay tuned. As always, for the Rump Roast, it’s even more supple than the Roast Beast. Welcome everybody. That’s right. We’re here again. Once again at the rear end of the Legal Toolkit podcast. It’s the Rump Roast. It’s a grab bag of short form topics. All of my choosing. Why do I get to pick? Because I’m the host. Ashley, welcome back. How are you feeling?

Ashley Robinson:

I’m great. Jared. Excited for this segment. Who knows where we’re going with this?

Jared Correia:

No one except for me. As I alluded to previously, you named your company after a sweater. I now understand why. So I decided that we’re going to do some sweater related trivia today. I mean, why not? I’m calling this, don’t sweat it. That’s my advice to you. Okay. I have six trivia questions teed up for you all sweater related. So I’m going to read them and then I’ll give you multiple choice if you need it, but only if you need it. Are you ready for the first question?

Ashley Robinson:

I’m ready.

Jared Correia:

This Simpsons parody song of a Disney classic sung by Montgomery Burns features the lines. Some men hunt for sport, others hunt for food. The only thing I’m hunting for is an outfit That looks good. Do you need multiple choice or do you know the

Ashley Robinson:

Song? Yeah, I mean, you lost me at Simpson’s. Yeah, I need multiple choice, just so I sound like,

Jared Correia:

Oh boy. Not a Simpson’s watcher.

Ashley Robinson:

Not at all.

Jared Correia:

Oh, it’s on now. Okay. I’m going to recommend some stuff for you after we’re done here today.

Ashley Robinson:

Okay. My husband does. I’ve just never gotten into it.

Jared Correia:

Is he available? Could you tap him in here? Oh,

Ashley Robinson:

Sorry. He’s in the Dominican Republic. Oh,

Jared Correia:

I was going to say feel free to text him. Is the name of the song Gopher Loafers Irish Setter Sweater or See my Vest.

Ashley Robinson:

See my Vest,

Jared Correia:

Correct?

Ashley Robinson:

Yeah.

Jared Correia:

Do you know what Disney song that’s based

Ashley Robinson:

On? I do not

Jared Correia:

Be My Guest for Beauty and the Beast.

Ashley Robinson:

There we go.

Jared Correia:

I will perform the public service of providing you the link to the See My Vest song.

Ashley Robinson:

Thank you.

Jared Correia:

When we’re done here, you will not be able to get it out of your head. One of the best Simpsons moments ever. Okay, we’re one for one.

Ashley Robinson:

Love it.

Jared Correia:

Question two. This horror movie villain wears a red and black striped sweater. He also needs to clip his fingernails. Do you need multiple choice or do you know who this is?

Ashley Robinson:

Give me multiple choice.

Jared Correia:

Charlie Brown, Freddie Krueger or Michael Myers Horror movie villain with a red and black striped sweater.

Ashley Robinson:

Oh God. Freddy Krueger.

Jared Correia:

Yes. I don’t know. I feel like you’re sandbagging me right now.

Ashley Robinson:

Two for two.

Jared Correia:

You’re two for two.

Ashley Robinson:

Two for two.

Jared Correia:

Let’s keep going. This PBS Children’s Television star preferred a red cardigan, not a green cardigan. Is it Mr. Rogers? Captain Kangaroo or Bozo? The Clown Red.

Ashley Robinson:

Mr. Rogers. Final answer,

Jared Correia:

Mr. Rogers? Indeed. Wow, you’re crushing this should have made this harder. Okay,

Ashley Robinson:

I’m prepped and ready. Jared

Jared Correia:

Gut. You’re treating this like a golf course.

Ashley Robinson:

That’s right. I don’t mess around.

Jared Correia:

Next question number four. You are three for three. No pressure. This Scooby-Doo character rocks an orange cardigan. Is it Daphne, Velma or Shaggy? Who wears an orange cardigan in Scooby-Doo. Oh, we may have tripped you up here,

Ashley Robinson:

Daphne. Final answer,

Jared Correia:

It is Velma. Sadly, you’re doing well though.

Ashley Robinson:

Thank you.

Jared Correia:

Even if you get none right for the rest of the time here, you’ll be at 50%, which I think is probably shooting 300 par.

Ashley Robinson:

There you go. Oh, look at this golf reference.

Jared Correia:

Trying. Alright, I got two more for you. A famous patterned sweater is worn by a character named the dude in this Cohen Brothers movie, and if you tell me you have not seen any Cohen Brothers movies, I may just have to stop the recording.

Ashley Robinson:

So not seeing Cohen Brothers movies nor being a fan of The Simpsons, does that obliterate this episode?

Jared Correia:

Yeah. We’re not even going to publish this.

Ashley Robinson:

No,

Jared Correia:

No. We’ll still publish it. Do you need multiple choice or are you aware of this film? I do.

Ashley Robinson:

I do.

Jared Correia:

Okay. The character’s name is the dude he wears a patterned sweater is the movie. These are all Cohen brothers movies. Is it Barton Fink? Oh, brother. Were Art Thou or the Big Lebowski.

Ashley Robinson:

The Big Lebowski.

Jared Correia:

Yes. Correct. Which you’ve never seen, right? Just

Ashley Robinson:

Confirm. Total guess. Total guess. You are confirming that correctly.

Jared Correia:

Great movie. You should watch it with your husband sometime

Ashley Robinson:

Adding it to my list.

Jared Correia:

John Goodman is fucking amazing in the Big Leki. I’m impressed. I’m impressed. Four for five.

Ashley Robinson:

Thank you.

Jared Correia:

Can you bring home a strong five for six?

Ashley Robinson:

Let’s go. I’ll give it a shot.

Jared Correia:

Last question. This Weezer song, the band Weezer, is a metaphor for the ending of a relationship. Is it cardigan undone The sweater, song or sweater? Weather. Cardigan, undone or sweater Weather. Which is

Ashley Robinson:

The reason song? I don’t know the answer. I have seen them in concert.

Jared Correia:

I’m going to have to make you a playlist.

Ashley Robinson:

Have

Jared Correia:

To go. I have to go Have you. We in a concert.

Ashley Robinson:

I have.

Jared Correia:

They didn’t do this song.

Ashley Robinson:

I’m sure they did. Again, going back to my husband, he’s the fan. I just went to be supportive.

Jared Correia:

What was the encore? Do you recall the Encore?

Ashley Robinson:

I do not. It was on the beach and it started storming and so they had to go off stage, come back like an hour or two later. Long delay. I have to go cardigan Jared just because of the name of my business. It might be wrong, but it seems like a great answer. Okay.

Jared Correia:

It is undone. The sweater song. Cardigan’s a Taylor Swift song.

Ashley Robinson:

Actually. It is. I do know that.

Jared Correia:

All right. I think maybe the next time we do this we’ll have your husband come on

Ashley Robinson:

And

Jared Correia:

You guys can tag team the trivia.

Ashley Robinson:

Okay. Okay.

Jared Correia:

But tremendous showing

Ashley Robinson:

Strong performance. Yeah.

Jared Correia:

I’m offering you a golf clap right now at like,

Ashley Robinson:

Thank you.

Jared Correia:

I dunno. Four out of six. That’s really good.

Ashley Robinson:

Yeah, strong performing. I’ll take it. I’ll take it.

Jared Correia:

Ashley, thank you. Your work here is done. I appreciate you coming on.

Ashley Robinson:

Thank you, Jared. This is a lot of fun.

Jared Correia:

If you want to find out more about Ashley Robinson and her work at Green Cardigan Marketing, visit green cardigan marketing.com. That’s green cardigan marketing.com. Now, for those of you listening in Pebble Beach, California, I’ve got a Spotify playlist for you. That’s right. It’s Sheryl Crow’s greatest hits. So let’s enter the Tuesday night Music Club. Listen and enjoy. Now, sadly, I’ve run out of time today to talk about my idea for a water snowblower. Well sprayer actually, but nobody steal that. Okay. I need some more time to develop it. This is Jared Correia reminding you that while Tigers can’t change their stripes, I can, because mine are painted on.

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