EP 514- The Law Clerk Experience Part One

Episode Notes

Transcript

Announcer:

Welcome to The Jury. is Out a podcast for trial attorneys who want to sharpen their skills and better serve their clients. Your co-hosts are John Simon, founder of the Simon Law Firm Tim Cronin personal injury trial attorney at the Simon Law Firm and St. Louis attorney Eric Vieth

Sydney Marino:

So welcome back to another episode of The Jury is Out. We’re actually doing a substitute episode today, so we’re going to go around and do some introductions. My name is Sydney Marino. I am a Law Clerk here at the Simon Law Firm, and I am from St. Louis and I’m going to be a rising three L this year at St. Louis University School of Law.

Isabella Gonzalez:

Good morning everyone. I’m Isabella Gonzalez. I am a born and raised Miami Florida girl. I go to SLU Law and I am a rising two L and I’m a law clerk here at the Simon Law Firm as well.

Abbie Hoefer:

Hi everyone, my name is Abbie. I am also a law clerk here at the Simon Law Firm. I’m a rising two L at St. Louis University School of Law and I’m excited to talk to you guys today.

Tony Simon:

And this is Tony Simon. I’m an attorney to Simon Law Firm. I have been practicing a long time, like 33 years, and I do intellectual property and business litigation and welcome to the clerks that are here. So what’s the subject matter of this podcast?

Sydney Marino:

So we have a couple of different things we want to cover today. I think we’re going to start with just how to be a good law clerk. We should have prefaced that all three of us work for you. This is my second year working for you. And then Abbie and Issa, this is their first summer here. So maybe talking about how to be a good law clerk navigating clerkship and then maybe move into just having success in clerkship and then in school and then in career to get some advice from you.

Tony Simon:

And so clerks at the Simon Law Firm, you work full-time during the summer, right? Correct. You have to answer out loud like I’m in a deposition and then part-time during the school year.

Isabella Gonzalez:

Yes, yes.

Tony Simon:

Okay. So I think what we ought to start with is what’s it like to be a law clerk?

Isabella Gonzalez:

Stressful but fun? I think you learn a lot because handed a lot of responsibility. At least you are here, there’s no form of micromanagement, so you really are just kind of thrown in the deep end and you learn how to swim really quickly. And that’s the best way I think to learn is how to have things handed to you, excuse me, and then learn how to do them over time.

Sydney Marino:

I think that this is one of the best experiences that you can have as a young attorney, almost an attorney. I think getting actual experience, drafting motions, drafting petitions, going to oral arguments, sitting in on depositions. You’re doing work that first year and second year associates are doing at big firms, but you’re doing that as coming out of your first year of law school. So I think me now being here my second year, that was the biggest difference that I saw compared to my friends that were working at other places that were telling me that they’re doing a lot of research, a lot of inner office memos here. I was doing drafting motions that were being filed in the Eastern District of Missouri. So I think that’s what it’s like to be a clerk. It is getting thrown in the deep end, but like you said, you have to learn to swim and you have to learn how to navigate stuff that you’re not going to know how to do initially that you don’t learn in law school. I think you’re learning a lot of practical skills, the reading, the writing, case briefs, research, but you’re not getting a lot of actual hands-on experience. So I think

Tony Simon:

That’s, and we do review those before they get fired.

Abbie Hoefer:

Yeah, I should have prefaced that. It’s not just us, but

Tony Simon:

What about you Abbie?

Abbie Hoefer:

So I think for me the biggest adjustment going from law school to being a clerk was I’m a first generation law student, hopefully one day an attorney. And I had no idea what I was getting myself into by actually working in a law firm. And I think exactly what Issa said is I think the biggest surprise is actually the amount of responsibility that we do have and the amount of professional you’re expected to be a professional when you walk in here, even as a law clerk. And I think even though I’ve only been here for two months, I’ve been able to take what I did in law school and I learned in law school, I learned to be disciplined to study and you learn how to actually take material. But when you’re a law clerk, learning to apply those skills that you learned in law school. And it’s just been a really cool experience actually taking what I learned in law school and being put to the test in a clerkship and saying, okay, can you challenge yourself? And I think for me it’s been a little bit uncomfortable, but I think it’s good for me because I think I’ve always loved school, I’ve always been a pretty good student, but when you actually have to put those skills to test, it’s kind of challenging yourself in a different way, which has been both surprising but really

Tony Simon:

Rewarding. And is part of that that you’re working on real lives, real people’s cases that matter.

Isabella Gonzalez:

That’s the most terrifying part. You handle that, it’s your case. I think it was Jared that gave us a lunch and learn and he was like, any project that you get, treat that as if you were the attorney on the case. And I think that was a really helpful piece of advice because it gives you a higher sense of responsibility than you already know you have. And it forces you, I think to almost put yourself more in a mindset of thinking like an attorney, which is what you’re learning how to do actively. So I think that was good to know. Yeah,

Tony Simon:

Where do you get your license and then you put your name on things, then you really learn. But no, it is a difference because in law school you’re writing something and your grade matters. But in our cases, if we mess something up, our client’s case gets hurt. So we have our client’s case in our hands and we have to do that.

Abbie Hoefer:

And something I’m still working on is I think everyone talks about imposter syndrome. I think that that was told to me when I entered law school, you’ll be a law student and you won’t think that you’re supposed to be there, but everyone tells you you’ve worked hard to get here, you’re in law school, own it and be proud of yourself. But then you get to a clerkship and then it’s like you have imposter syndrome because exactly like Issa said, you have real clients, there’s real responsibilities and real people that you’re actually helping. And I think that I’m working day by day to just accept that this is where I’m supposed to be. Keep working hard and just know that you’re going to help people. And the community at the Simon, Law Firm has been so great. I mean even just the fact that there’s 23 I think clerks, there’s always someone that’s there to help you. And I think just as a law clerk, I’m trying to realize that I’m supposed to be here and also use the skills that I’ve learned in school to actually make a difference in real work. And that’s been great.

Tony Simon:

And part of the transition too is of U three. Did any of you work full-time between college and law school?

Isabella Gonzalez:

Yes, I did. I worked as a paralegal and the difference between a paralegal and a law clerk is huge. You’re reviewing the formatting versus creating the substance, and that was really challenging for me. Maybe a week or two ago I was writing a request for production. I kept making mistakes and I’d get mad at myself and I’d be like, you need to focus. This is a big deal. And I think working as a paralegal gave me the skill of how to receive criticism at work because I don’t ever take it personally. It’s just the job needs to be done and we need to do it well. So that’s how I approach criticism and you’re going to guide me as to how best to approach that project or issue that we’re working on. And that can get hard sometimes, especially when you’re doing something for the first time.

And that had been the first time that I had prepared a request for production from scratch and I was struggling beyond belief, but I finally got it together and I was like, okay, well we did that. It was hard, but we got through it. So I think working at a law firm full time as a paralegal helped me to maneuver through the office with the professionalism aspect and to move forward and to communicate a lot. I’d rather ask multiple questions to clarify, to make sure that I am doing the job that needs to be done and doing it well. That’s something I learned and you always want to be honest as well if you think you’ve made a mistake. I think that’s a big one that sometimes nobody talks about making mistakes, owning up to them at least. And that’s a really hard thing to do, especially I think at this stage because we’re still learning, but we know what’s at stake. We know that there’s a big responsibility on the line. So when you do make a mistake, it’s hard to balance that between am I helping, am I doing my job well versus I am still learning as well. So it is a bit of a balance.

Tony Simon:

And I guess what I was getting to was I personally didn’t work full-time between college and law school. I had part-time jobs, but working in a law office or working at a job, if it’s your first job as a law clerk really for a summer where you’re in an office, that’s an additional thing. You have to learn the professionalism, the showing up on time, how to communicate with the others in the office, and they’re not all lawyers at a law firm, you have paralegals, you have other clerks, you have administrative staff, and you have to know how to interact with people and I think how has that transition for you all?

Sydney Marino:

I was going to say I should have put that in the introductions that Abbie and I, at least I know came straight from undergrad, didn’t took a summer, maybe half a summer and then went straight into law school. So I think that is a big difference. Then people that go to law school after maybe being in a career for a few years or taking a year off and working, I had also worked part-time jobs. I think I had one internship that was a 40 hour normal full-time job over the summer in college. So it is kind of a big difference to put yourself in that environment to be going from working, I don’t know, at a restaurant that I worked at and now I’m in an office and you have to be eight to five or get there earlier, leave later interacting with people. I think the Simon, Law Firm is a great environment and culture and so interacting is a lot easier than maybe somewhere where people aren’t doing that as often or they’re not even in the office because hybrid.

So I don’t know, I felt like the transition was not that difficult because of the people that we were surrounded with. Also, I felt like being a clerk here, we have a lot of meetings, we have a lot of working together or we’ll do whenever we have lunch and learns or we all have lunch together. I think that’s something that helps a lot. You’re seeing all these people, you’re seeing all the attorneys and everyone’s interacting. It’s not that there’s different levels. Only the clerks talk to the clerks and only the attorneys talk to the attorneys. So I think that’s a very big positive and that helps a lot with moving through that transition from never being in an office to now being in a professional career. So I think that’s a big help

Abbie Hoefer:

For me. I think the transition felt like a pretty big step because I’ve worked since I was 13 in the customer service industry. I’ve worked in restaurants, I feel like I’ve learned people skills through the jobs that I’ve had, but my freshman year of college was covid, so any internship I had during college was online and this was my first in-person, 40 hour a week opportunity, which was really exciting. I think in college I learned how to take tasks, how to take criticism, how to apply things that I was learning in school to what I needed to do in the job. But this summer was my first time personally where we are treated like we are important and we have responsibilities and I think the transition was super exciting, but it’s definitely new and can be intimidating at times for

Tony Simon:

Sure. It takes a little getting used to. How about, and this is just something I’ll bring up because I’ve seen it over the years. How about the challenge of actually talking to people, like talking to clients, talking to other lawyers as opposed to texting and emailing?

Sydney Marino:

I would prefer talking in person. I mean, you know me, I call you all the time. I would rather convey what I want to say or ask in person or to have a conversation and I think that’s just a me thing that I would rather sit and talk to someone face to face. I do think it is a little bit of a difference. I mean when I first started here I was emailing you, Hey, can I call you right now? Or I was sending you update emails.

Tony Simon:

Yes.

Sydney Marino:

So I think that’s definitely a change that’s also getting to know the kind of person that you work for

And work with. But I don’t know, I think all three of us are pretty talkative people. We were saying that before and we feel comfortable in conversations. I also think that is, I inherently a thing that law students have, especially people that want to be trial attorneys. They have the ability to speak comfortably with if it’s going to be a client, another attorney, a judge, you have that confidence a little bit. So I don’t know, that was something though. It does take getting used to figuring out the kind of people that you work around and being able to communicate with them in that way that is successful on both ends. So now I don’t email you asking, Hey, is this a good time to call you? I just do it.

Abbie Hoefer:

Tony says this phrase a lot. Say what you mean mean what you say. And that is something that I’m really working on and I think it has been more challenging for me than I thought it was going to be because like you said, Cindy, I am a people person. I usually am comfortable talking with people and with clients. I think I’ve learned that patience is very important in this position. I think just taking the time to understand their story and what you need to pull from them. But in terms of taking criticism and feedback from you, I think I’m working on whenever I need to have my words more concise and more thoughtful before I call you and tell you because if I don’t know what I’m talking about, I’m just going to be more confused on the phone. That’s honestly been something that is more challenging for me because I usually am good with my words, but I think taking a step back, making sure you really know what you’re talking about before you start the phone call is something that is really important.

Tony Simon:

You do very good point.

Abbie Hoefer:

Even

Isabella Gonzalez:

When you do send an email, sometimes it gets lost in translation, like the way you worded it and it may not sound the question you’re asking and then you get on the phone and you resolve the problem in five minutes. So I like phone calls, I just try to be cautious of they’re also the attorneys are working on other things, but if I do have a question, either email or I typically tend to look at the schedule for that day and I’m like, are they in a meeting? Are they working on something? Is there a deadline tomorrow? Because those are things that affect their communication during the day. So I try to be considerate of that. But the phone calls I think are just more efficient.

They’re quick and to the point. Sometimes emailing just takes long or you don’t see it or something and you need something done quickly. I think it’s a give and take depending on what you’re handling, but talking to attorneys I think is more intimidating for me because you’re looking at somebody with years of experience and you could be asking a question that you are legitimately confused on and they know the answer before you’re even halfway through the question. So that’s part of the game is sometimes you may be asking something that you for sure think that they know or they might not know. I asked Jeremiah Nixon a question, it was based on something that had never been discussed before and he looked at me, he said, I dunno, you should do more research. So it’s interesting. It really is a lot to communicate and communication is really important like day to day.

Tony Simon:

So before we go, you mentioned a couple of you lunch and learn a couple of times just for our audience, what is a lunch and learn

Sydney Marino:

And we have a lot more this year, so that’s exciting to talk about. I’m sure we’ve implemented this with other clerks, but in the summer we’ll have attorneys do a discussion, a lunch discussion with all of the clerks and typically they’ll pick a topic and they’ll focus on that. Yesterday one of the attorneys did one and it was just about tips for young attorneys navigating being a young attorney. I know there’s ones on voir dire and depositions, sometimes they’re more practical, some of ’em are just having discussions. Kind of like what we’re doing and I know yours is on your 41 rules of lawyering. Yeah, 41 because we can’t find we 21 more rules yesterday

Tony Simon:

That’s actually from Brad Winters who we need to have on The. Jury is Out one time and go over those rules.

Sydney Marino:

Those rules are very helpful and I

Tony Simon:

Hear interesting you talk about say what you mean to mean what you say. That’s what my boss a long time ago when I was a young new attorney would tell me, and what’s so important in what you’ll come to realize, especially if you’re doing litigation, everything is in writing and so you’re conveying most of the time an emotion to a judge what you want in writing. You’re conveying what you want to say to the jury using words and you have to make sure you’re using the words you want to use. And everything in a deposition is taken down and then it’s written. A lot of people communicate and they understand what each other are talking about face-to-face talking, but if it’s in writing it doesn’t come across and so you don’t have that body language. So you need to be precise about those words. When you finally take your first deposition, I’ll tell you read it and notice what you say because in addition to the ums and okays that are in between questions which you learn not to do, you’ll think, man, I thought I got this answer, but you didn’t quite phrase it the way you wanted.

So words do matter and that’s why I always press you on it.

Abbie Hoefer:

Yeah, and something I think that I wish I would’ve told myself two months ago is as I’ve only finished one year of law school, there’s only so many tangible skills that we can pull. I think I was more nervous to ask the questions upfront and I generally tend to be someone of like, I want to figure this out on my own. But I think kind of letting those guards down and in the long run asking questions upfront will benefit you and the attorney because your assignment will be done quicker. So if I were to tell myself some advice two months ago, I would’ve just said, get the assignment, do the research, but come back to the attorney with good questions so that your research can be more concise and your motions can be more concise just because if you don’t understand what your assignment is, you’re not going to do it. Well

Tony Simon:

That’s a very important point, making sure you understand the

Isabella Gonzalez:

Assignment. You had told us that in a meeting and we were all very nervous for that meeting for no reason. We all walked in there and we were like, we don’t know what’s going to happen. But it was a good meeting. You reminded us remember the purpose of your assignment and sometimes when you’re handling multiple things at once, you can forget the purpose of your assignment and I don’t think that there should be any shame in doing things wrong. How you learn your failures are probably your biggest lessons. So even if I wrote a whole memo that didn’t get to the purpose of the assignment, well okay, we’re missing a memo now, but the next memo should be able to answer that question because I’m going to detail way quicker now and I’m going to remember what is the question that we’re trying to answer. And I think that that’s something that I’ve learned here because sometimes you get caught up in the fluff that’s around it when you really just need to zero in on the main point that you want to make. So you’re absolutely correct in saying you have to be concise. If something on paper isn’t clear, then you could be saying multiple things when you really want to just say one. Right?

Tony Simon:

It detracts, it detracts from your good arguments. That’s another very good point. And we do have meetings and I think you remember your first meeting, we didn’t get too in depth, but then after you’re here about a month we have another meeting because now you can put in context some of the lessons when you just walk in the door, if we throw everything at you, you won’t have a context to put it in. But we have the second meeting where we talked about make sure the goal of the assignment so that you can say, yes, I know what he’s talking about now because I did that.

Sydney Marino:

Having meetings is good. No, I love that we have that and we are able to all communicate in a group. I think a lot of things get done in a more efficient manner that way.

Tony Simon:

And one of you also talked about asking questions and asking the question and just as it’s a balance for you right on when to ask the question For the lawyers, it’s a balance too because sometimes I give you an assignment and I’m pretty sure I know what the law is, but I want you to verify it. But me just telling you what the law is doesn’t really teach you how to figure it out for yourself. And so sometimes we do want you to learn how to figure out the answer and sometimes we really don’t know the answer. Sometimes you’ve seen me when I argue with you and say, that can’t be the law. There’s got to be a case and you tell me no, that’s not sometimes we’re wrong or the law changes

Isabella Gonzalez:

Or there is no law. And you’ll be like, where’s the case law? And I said, there is none.

Tony Simon:

That’s right. My old boss used to say until there’s Simon on patent law, find me a case.

Sydney Marino:

I’ve heard that line. The law of Sydney.

Tony Simon:

Yeah, we need to have precedent.

Sydney Marino:

Alright, it’s good that we have each other Also, I think when we are talking about this before you came in asking each other questions because sometimes I’ll think of something and maybe it’s a dumb question, there aren’t any dumb questions, but I’ll ask other people’s thoughts and you can kind of work through it without even having to go and ask an attorney because you can talk through with your peers and all the other clerks. I think having each other is also a big

Isabella Gonzalez:

Facet. Absolutely. It was an interrogatory. We were helping her out the other day, the way that the interrogatory was written, well it could mean this and we could mean that we called, it was Sydney Andrew, we had five people. We had five people reading the same sentence and coming up with different interpretations as to what the question was asking.

Tony Simon:

Finally interrogatory

Isabella Gonzalez:

An accent. It was just a poorly written and we were struggling and then we kind of finally came up with a general consensus. But it’s nice to have that because it does give you different perspectives. It does give you different ideas that you possibly didn’t have before or even when you’re writing a motion and you have to come up with an argument and you can say, Hey, I’m thinking about this argument, what do you think? And that might not be the best one. So you can ask somebody what this might be a better argument or

Sydney Marino:

There’s a lot of comradery.

Isabella Gonzalez:

Definitely

Abbie Hoefer:

Here

Isabella Gonzalez:

We have a good group

Abbie Hoefer:

On the IP team when it makes you feel like you’re not alone. I was the one that was struggling with the interrogatory for a long few days. That’s why it’s good to always ask. I hit a point, I was like, I got to lose my pride and just ask people for help. And then I was very relieved when everyone else was like, wait a minute, this does not make any sense. So it was very helpful and I agree the comradery is so important. It makes the workdays a lot easier. Yeah.

Tony Simon:

How about time? Do your projects take more time or less time than you thought they would?

Isabella Gonzalez:

That’s a really good question because I don’t know what you guys expect because you guys already have the experience under your

Tony Simon:

Belt.

Isabella Gonzalez:

You mean the lawyers? The lawyers? Yeah, the lawyers. What do lawyers expect when it comes to certain projects? Because some things that you say are simple may not be simple to me because I’ve never done them. So sometimes that can get frustrating when you’re working on something and you say this should be simple and then you’re taking time on it and you don’t know how much time to gauge for an assignment. I think that that’s a balance that you learn as you go.

Sydney Marino:

There is a big learning curve with getting assignments done. I think I’ve had to deal with that. Sometimes I’ll do things a little too quick and that is just, maybe that’s a personal thing. I like to get things done and I like to do them efficiently, but sometimes that’s maybe not the most efficient way. If you’re getting it done too quickly, then you have to go back and edit and make changes. So I think that comes with the territory of moving into, oh, well you’ve never been in this sort of position, you’ve never been given these types of assignments. So it’s just getting a gauge of how long to take to do something. I think I was talking to someone about this the other week, take the amount of time that you need to actually understand the material because if you bring it to Tony or another attorney and you don’t understand the material, they’re not going to understand the material or what you’re trying to convey and then you’re just going to have to keep doing it and rewriting the argument or looking for more case law, doing more research when if you just took maybe an extra hour or an extra day and came back to it later, you can have a better product and better answer without having to go back and do it three more times because you took less time because you thought that that was

Isabella Gonzalez:

Required. Taking the day is important. She was working, I don’t know what project it was Abbie was working on and she looked at me, she goes, I don’t think I can look at this anymore today because I’m going crazy. And I said, yeah, that’s a good reason. And she’s like, I’m going to look at it tomorrow morning with fresh eyes. I said, I think that’s the way to approach things because sometimes you get so wrapped up in the details that you start nitpicking at things that are not necessarily important and then you lose. That’s where you start to lose that purpose of the assignment or the goal of the argument, that main point that you’re trying to make. And then if you get confused and lost in your own work and you try to present that to somebody else, a mess is a train wreck and that’s not being productive with your time.

Sydney Marino:

I think that goes for even just with school as well, because when we talk about that, I’ll sit and work on something and you both will come across this now being two Ls where you’re actually doing a little bit more tangible work and not just having your exams. You’ll be in classes where you’re writing essays or you’re on journal and you’re doing that. Taking a minute and stepping away from something and then gathering your thoughts or go for a walk. I do that all the time because I’ll sit and look at my journal paper. It took me so long to write because I had to keep stepping away and you have to regather your thoughts. So I think the same goes for whenever you’re working on something here or in the future, taking a step back,

Tony Simon:

But not too long a

Sydney Marino:

Step

Tony Simon:

Because lawyers want stuff done now. Yes. What about you Abbie?

Abbie Hoefer:

So I was going to say in opposition to Sydney, I’m someone that probably takes too long because I think the fear of doing it wrong kind of sometimes sets me back and I probably take too long to do the research. I want to make sure that I didn’t miss anything. And so I think I’m trying to learn to be efficient and to trust my work while also making sure that it’s done well and is something that I would be proud of presenting to the attorney. I think you have to find the happy medium of, okay, this one research assignment should not take me three weeks to get done. But it also shouldn’t take you two days if there’s confusion around the topic. So I’m trying to find the happy medium of one. Right? When I get my assignment, the first thing I really want to do is do I understand what I need to do?

Do I understand the case law? And then secondly, when I’m producing my work for the attorney, going through and making sure that it’s good work and before I submit it, making sure there’s no grammatical errors or things that would upset the attorney and that are on me to figure out. So things have taken me longer to answer your question than I probably expected, but I think that I’ve gotten more efficient as the summer has gone by and I’m just working on trusting myself and trusting my abilities and then also making sure that it’s still good work that’s not done

Tony Simon:

Too quickly. And I think Sydney, you said understanding what you’re working on first, and that is important because that’s the way you become a better attorney. Even as you’re practicing. I mean, I still go look up the rule if I’m going to review requests for production, I look at rule 36 or that’s request for admissions rule 34 just to see because rules change. But over time, as you develop your understanding of the law, you start to develop a base of understanding and then you build on that. And then it’s just determining that the way you understood the law before hasn’t changed or maybe it’s changed in certain ways and how they apply to your case. So it’s important throughout your career, not just as a law clerk, but to understand that it’s the most difficult as a clerk because you haven’t done it before.

Abbie Hoefer:

And I was going to say the first two weeks of the clerkship, I felt like I was even figuring out how to navigate, where to find where we file cases, where we find, the first day that I joined the Simon, Law Firm, I took on a response to a motion to dismiss for lack of personal jurisdiction. And I was like, yep, I’ll take it. And then I went to JR and I was like, okay, so do you need this by tomorrow? He was like, no. He was like, this will be a big assignment that you’ll take a few weeks on. And I think that day I sat down and I read through every single document that was filed in that case, which now I know I don’t need to do that. Now as you go on in the clerkship, you figure out the documents that you need to make sure that you’re paying attention to and where you need to go to find out the important facts of the case. And I think that that’s, like you said, Tony, just something that takes time and we’re kind of getting our bearings. And I think, I mean even just having Sydney, I feel like you’re kind of are a mentor to me because you’ve been here for two years and your way around the firm, you know where to find things, you know who to talk to. And I think that finding someone that can help you is so important because it’s all new and I think it can be a little bit intimidating

Isabella Gonzalez:

At times. Yeah, she’s also worked on some of the cases that we’re now working on before us, so she’s had a little more time with it, knows the case better, so she might be able to put in some input. So I agree with Abbie saying that she’s a bit of a mentor. We were talking about that before the podcast and I said, I always ask you questions because something that you might know and I don’t, might prevent me from asking an attorney that question and saving time. So I think that’s really valuable. The clerkships provides a kind of collaborative environment where you learn from each other, but you’re also learning from the attorneys that you work under. I mean, I worked with Tim on one of the cases that he’s going to trial on now, and it was very interesting, but completely different from working for Tony.

It was a completely different system, the expectations, the way he wanted the research presented. So it really does depend on who you work for. That’s another big thing that I’ve realized. Every attorney will want the same things presented in a different way. And that’s really important because when attorneys look at what you’ve presented them, one way might appeal to one attorney and the other might appeal to the opposing attorney. Those are the things that you go learning through this experience and you can’t get that. In law school. We were talking about writing case briefs and that our case briefs are all different shapes and sizes. Sydney says hers are extra special.

Tony Simon:

And you bring up a good point because that changes not only from attorney attorney but firm to firm. So where you work, and we do like that. That’s why we like to have clerks come back for a second summer is for continuity.

Sydney Marino:

I think that’s why I’m glad we’re doing this. We had been talking about, or you guys had mentioned to me as well, having somewhere to go to hear about clerkship, what to expect. So I’m glad we’re doing this episode because, and maybe episodes to come because it is a good outlet to be able to kind of hear from people that are actually doing it. So I’m glad I’m able to help you guys. That’s all I want to ever do. And that was one of the topics that you brought up, doing research on the firm you’re going to be working for and who you’re going to be working for. I think before you even I apply for a job, like always research where you’re going to be, but especially when you get an offer and you accept that offer, know what the kind of cases they’re going to be working on. So thank you all for joining us on The. Jury is Out and we are just discussing navigating clerkships and how to be a good law clerk. Join us next time when we discuss how to get a clerkship, interviewing tips, all of that fun stuff. Thank you.

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