Anti-Vaxxer Law — The Last Refuge Of The Scoundrel

Episode Notes

Transcript

[Music]

Joe Patrice:  Hello.

Kathryn Rubino: Hello.

Joe Patrice: And welcome back to another edition of Thinking Like a Lawyer. I’m Joe Patrice from Above the Law. I’m joined by the other folks from — not everybody from Above the Law, but some other folks from Above the Law, Kathryn Rubino already she jumped in and said hello when it wasn’t her queue.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, it annoys you, so I – Listen, I’m trying to get back some.

Joe Patrice: I just tried to edit it out. So, she jumped in.

Kathryn Rubino: Just like you.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. Well, there and we also have Chris Williams, who is joining us. Really going above and beyond. How are you feeling over there?

Chris Williams: I feel like God kissed me with COVID. So, blessed, but infectious, like most, most days.

Kathryn Rubino: So, it’s like that Old Testament God, right? We’re just like plagues. Yeah, let’s kill a bunch.

Chris Williams: Yeah. I looked behind me, I saw a salt pillar. I was like, damn, yeah wait.

Joe Patrice: Speaking of plagues –

Kathryn Rubino: As one does.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. You know it’s a (00:01:08)

Kathryn Rubino: Oh, stop it.

Joe Patrice: That is our official plague trumpet.

Chris Williams: No, that was the trumpet of Ezekiel.

Kathryn Rubino: Are you like the archangel Gabriel.

Chris Williams: Yeah, that was Gabriel’s trumpet.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, there we go. This has turned into a theology podcast real fast.

Chris Williams: Yeah. Christopher means Christ bearer. I come bringing news and it sucks. The ceiling of my kitchen caved in.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. What was with that? I saw a pictures, that was awful.

Chris Williams: Yeah. Apparently, I didn’t put enough newborn blood on my door.

Kathryn Rubino: Have you been smote, what was going on?

Joe Patrice: Yeah, you’ve got ceilings collapsing. You’ve got COVID.

Chris Williams: I don’t know if I’ve been smote, as much as smitten with bad fortune, because that happened. I caught the vid which interestingly enough on Friday, I was supposed to have somebody come through to look at said hole in kitchen ceiling, but then they didn’t come around because my mom put down the wrong number. That happens when you ask my — do your big boy tasks for you, that was my fault. Then I get sick out of nowhere. I get aches and pains, and my spine feels like I got kicked by again, God. I take a COVID test. It comes back. I see the faintest bit of a line. Like, it’s about as faint as like the remaining jurisprudence on Roe v. Wade and it’s bad. Recent, I’m sorry, but I’m like, okay, this Friday was bad. Saturday nothing like for using constitutional language. Just like a scintilla of sickness. I’m like, okay, this is cool. Sunday, I’m great. A friend comes over. I’m like, it’s probably just a flu. I take another COVID test. It says, to wait like fifteen minutes, and about a minute left, about like a minute and three seconds and it’s like, oh, you have super COVID. Like, I’ve never seen darker lines, except for, like extreme sleep deprivation. So, then I don’t know what we do here now. Yeah, so apologies for the extended COVID exposure dear friend.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah. I think that a lot of people are dealing with very similar sorts of situations. I know. I took a COVID test the beginning of this weekend before I hung out with friends, because a friend of mine is traveling abroad and needs a negative PCR. She’s like “hey, to be that one, but please take a test before we see each other” and I was like, “absolutely.”

Joe Patrice: Yeah, my breakthrough, which happened a few months ago.

Kathryn Rubino: That was before you were boosted right?

Joe Patrice: Before I was boosted was incredibly mild. But yeah, no, it’s one of those things to keep an eye out for and certainly ravaging New York and all.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, the other thing that I did this weekend, but as I mentioned, I took a COVID test but the other thing I did as a result was spend a good portion of my time trying to track down more COVID tests. In a weird way, I feel almost nostalgic for the early days of the vaccine when it felt like the hunger games like trying to get an appointment and this felt a little hunger games E and terrifying for the state of our society.

Joe Patrice: Did you manage to find some tests?

Kathryn Rubino: That was a lot.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, but did you – I was like.

Kathryn Rubino: Yes, I did. I coyu7ld do what I do.

Joe Patrice: Like I don’t understand how you didn’t get that that was the queue I was giving you. Like at the end of that you go, yes.

Kathryn Rubino: I knew what you wanted. It doesn’t mean I’m going to give it to you.

Joe Patrice: Okay. Fair enough.

Kathryn Rubino: I’ve been explicit on record that I dislike all of your sound boards.

Joe Patrice: All sound effects. I understand.

Chris Williams: Hey, give the little drummer boy some slack here. It’s Monday, he’s trying to spread joy. How much rather that than COVID.

(00:04:59)

He was trying, not succeeding, but his trying and that’s what’s important.

Kathryn Rubino: Are we giving participation trophies now, likes what’s going on?

Chris Williams: Is there a sound for that?

Joe Patrice: Thanks, everybody.

Kathryn Rubino: It’s my fault really, I’ve indulged you for far too long.

Chris Williams: Also, before small talk becomes the whole show. Bob Saget died.

Kathryn Rubino: I know, I almost saw him do a show last month or I guess November. It’s January now, but in November and now I’m really sad that I didn’t go.

Chris Williams: Yeah. I feel like the best thing that people can do to honor him is just say the most horrible disgusting things you can say to your friends and family. That man was horrible in a great way as a person, I appreciate comedy. If you think that Bob Saget was contained by full house, you are out of your mind.

Kathryn Rubino: I mean, it’s obviously the fuller house.

Joe Patrice: It is actually amazing that he became famous off of that and America’s Funny Home Videos, where he played the most wholesome of wholesome for so long because he was incredibly dirty comic, which I think it’s a testament that he was able to get famous doing the exact opposite of what he did.

Chris Williams: It’s the power of good PR, man.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. Was that the end or do you have your finger up there?

Kathryn Rubino: Well, I just was thinking that someone who has a very clear public persona and then makes a switch was something that you’ve been writing about today.

Joe Patrice: Oh, so you thought we would end small talk and go into our – 

Kathryn Rubino: I thought I was going to make it so smooth. You wouldn’t have time to hit the soundboard.

Joe Patrice: I always have time to hit the soundboard. I don’t understand why you thought that wasn’t going to happen anyway. Well, let’s – 

Chris Williams: He has a point, Kathryn.

Kathryn Rubino: Are you on his side?

Joe Patrice: Yes. He told you last week that if he had controlled the soundboard, it would be even worse.

Kathryn Rubino: But part of that would be directed towards you, too. Right?

Chris Williams: Yeah. Kathryn has a point, Joe.

Joe Patrice: Yeah.  All right everybody.

Chris Williams: I am on the side of chaos.

Joe Patrice: Yeah.  And that’s fear.

Kathryn Rubino: You and Al Michaels, I don’t know if you saw the Sunday Night Football game this week, but the fact that it went to overtime and had it ended on a tie would have sent. Well, Vegas would have been on the hook for like $80 million or whatever.

Joe Patrice: Or more even, I don’t know.

Kathryn Rubino: But literally, Al Michaels at the end of the game was practically begging Vegas to kneel on the ball like I’ve never seen it before. I’d like to see the world burn. It was a lot of energy.

Joe Patrice: It was a thing.

Chris Williams: Five times hotter than the sun energy.

Joe Patrice: Yes. So, with all that said, no, you did raise the point about people changing their public persona and people who are disgraced. So, I guess we’ll transition. Jed Rubenfeld, Gayle Professor, married to tiger mom Amy Chua.

Kathryn Rubino: He’s still a professor or is he on –

Joe Patrice: He is a professor, but he doesn’t really do too much at the school since he suspended following a sexual harassment investigation. So, he’s been suspended for what was it two years and isn’t back yet. But look, there’s a dance I think that happens in these worlds when you get disgraced you have two options to kind of approach it with humility and contrition or double down and start blaming cancelled culture and appears as though he’s taking the other path.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, there you go.

Joe Patrice: So, he wrote an Op-ed today about the Biden vaccine mandate and argued that it’s not constitutional but his argument for why it should be struck down I guess technically didn’t go all the way to constitutionally said that there were some agency administrative law reasons. But the crux of his argument was that Omicron still spreads and people who are vaccinated are still getting it. So therefore, there’s no justification for vaccine mandates. I guess this goes to Chris’s current situation, but – 

Chris Williams: People that were bulletproof vests still get shot so you shouldn’t even really wear them to be honest.

Joe Patrice: Right? Yeah, it’s just comically bad. And he writes this with a Nobel prize winner for a virologist who won the Nobel prize in the past, but it’s also a virologist who has written in his own self-published Journal that DNA meets electromagnetic radio waves and that he believes in homeopathy. So he’s kind of on the outs with his own profession as well. So, this is like how Marvel said that Endgame was the most ambitious crossover of all time. I feel like Jed and this guy is an ambitious crossover.

Kathryn Rubino: He has a Nobel prize? How long ago.

Joe Patrice: 2008.

Kathryn Rubino: He’s the used like lost the plot.

(00:10:01)

Joe Patrice: It’s because he discovered he was part of a team that discovered the actual HIV virus, which I don’t know. I mean, they were going to find that eventually anyway. So, these two the Al Ginkgo and RoundTable here teamed up to explain that because Omicron can still be caught by people, therefore there is no justification to have a vaccine mandate at all. And it’s really complicated.

Kathryn Rubino: It doesn’t even make sense.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. Well, they cite a non-peer reviewed study that suggests that the vaccines alone have a minimal, if not a negative relationship with catching Omicron. Like, there’s some way of reading this data to suggest that being vaccinated actually makes you more likely to get Omicron is the argument they’re making. That said, that is not really the crux of the conclusion of that non peer reviewed report, which put it aside that its non-peer reviewed at this point. It also concludes that boosters help and that therefore you should get boosted. So, I don’t know as though it’s really as conclusive evidence as they say. And to the extent that that’s the conclusion of it, they blow it off as — well this is early evidence. It is early, and we can’t really put much reliance on it, but they are putting sole reliance on the rest of its conclusions. It’s bad.

Kathryn Rubino: My brain hurts.

Joe Patrice: They cite Jed that if he talks about in this Op-ed about Jacobson, which we’ve talked about on the show before, that ultimately States have some police power rights to overcome what would otherwise be unconstitutional forced medical care in the interest of protecting public health. That is the thing that exists. That said, I don’t quite know why that plays into the ocean mandate. But put aside that he goes on his extended jag in the article about how Jacobson wouldn’t apply here, because if you can still get Omicron with the vaccines then therefore it can’t meet the requirements of Jacobson, because Jacobson would require proof that the vaccine reduces transmission, which – 

Kathryn Rubino: That doesn’t seem dispositive.

Joe Patrice: It doesn’t. It’s actually weirdly getting it backwards, because he then even acknowledges and by acknowledges, I assume some editor forced him to put this in, acknowledges that there is reason to believe that the vaccines reduce the severity of the cases and he says, well, it would have to reduce infection rates, not severity. And I’m like, “why would that be?” Because it’s not that Jacobson said there’s a police power interest in reducing infections. It said that there’s a police power interest in public health and public safety, and reducing infections would meet that. If you said we don’t want our ICU’s overrun, that would seem to fit the public health and public safety provision anyway. So, it doesn’t even make sense. He gets this backwards and all I can think is it’s really something that’s kind of like cancel culture dance. And it’s true of both this doctor and him. They could have approached their screw ups with “I’m sorry” and instead they’ve just decided to embrace the fact that there are these Kooks who are going to love them anyway and it doesn’t matter how far a field of their professions they’re going I don’t know. You know what I thought of when I read this? Like the thing that was going through my head the whole time through this wall Street Journal Op-Ed was – 

Kathryn Rubino: I’ll allow it. But I’m also horrified which is true. But also, this is not entirely surprising, right? Rubenfeld has previously represented antivaxxers.

Joe Patrice: Yeah, to these new things. You got to find friends somewhere and I’m not saying that the antivaxxer community is a community that doesn’t really care that much about sexual harassment allegations, but I’m not, not saying that antivaxxer’s are community that doesn’t care about sexual harassment allegations.

Kathryn Rubino: This is a not very cheerful way to start.

Joe Patrice: Well, hey, Yale.

Kathryn Rubino: I mean, people go to Yale to be lawyers.

Joe Patrice: Actually, people don’t really go to Yale to be lawyers. They go to Yale to become dictators of small countries.

Chris Williams: They do offer various degrees.

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(00:15:03)

So, Kathryn, what can get you fired from your job?

Kathryn Rubino: Slapping a coworker, allegedly. Allegedly. We were talking about COVID, obviously. And Chris, we don’t wish COVID on anyone. But one thing that COVID did to you in the sort of waning moments of 2021 was cancel a lot of holiday parties. And some people might have kept their jobs if certain holiday parties had been canceled.

Joe Patrice: Had been gone forward.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah. I’m just saying, the story I wrote about general counsel, and there was a holiday party, and he admitted that he had alcohol, but said that he wasn’t intoxicated. There are allegations and first-person reports that the GC slapped a colleague.

Chris Williams: Wait, did he pull the — I didn’t inhale defense?

Kathryn Rubino: Well, he just wasn’t drunk. And his justification this actually is the thing that makes you go hmm in this story, so that he was trying to act out with his colleague police de-escalation tactics.

Chris Williams: Well, nobody was shot.

Kathryn Rubino: So, there is a W there.

Joe Patrice: Well, can I take it aside here? So, I was watching some CBS stuff the other day, which meant I saw a commercial for that show Blue Bloods, and it just kept striking me that – 

Kathryn Rubino: You and every 85-year-old woman.

Joe Patrice: I didn’t watch the show. I watched this commercial. And frankly, maybe if you watch the show, it all makes sense. But the way the commercial is cut is there’s a guy, like in an interaction of bodegas sort of situation with a plastic shield, and he gets angry at the clerk and smacks the shield, so it doesn’t hurt anybody. But just smacks the shield and it immediately cuts two cops going, whoa and grabbing for their guns. And I was like, “that seems like the opposite of a de-escalation technique” and frankly, a terrifying testament if this is how TV projects the appropriate response to this.

Chris Williams: I had four cops pull up on me one day when I was playing Pokemon Go.

Kathryn Rubino: That game at its height was actually incredibly dangerous for people.

Chris Williams: Yeah. But hey, you got to catch them all.

Kathryn Rubino: I suppose you do.

Chris Williams: But drunk in party.

Kathryn Rubino: Drunk in party, GC says that he was just demonstrating de-escalation tactics, but just as he did grab a colleague’s shoulder without getting their permission. And after the whole hubbub said that it was best in his best interest to just resign so that I believe it was the Denver airport GC so they could continue to go about their business without the distraction of the allegations that he denies. So, you know, that happened, but also serves as a good reminder that the legal profession continues to have a problem with substance abuse. And if you are having a problem, please seek help. That’s one of the things I definitely thought of when I was writing it is we at Above the Law write a lot about drunken antics. And I think that at first, it’s pretty fun and then you start seeing all the data and reports that substance abuse is a real problem for the profession more, so than most professions and so it becomes a little worrying much part of a much bigger issue than just one party that went off the rails.

Joe Patrice: Or it’s not a train thing, it’s that’s an airport, right?

Kathryn Rubino: Okay. Went off the runway? That’s not a thing. That’s not a thing.

Chris Williams: You can’t let him get away with it.

Kathryn Rubino: I got to hold the line. You shall not pass.

Joe Patrice: That’s an appropriate reference, because every interaction I’ve ever had with the Denver airport is the PA announcer going yeah, you’re not going anywhere. So that works.

Kathryn Rubino: Everything is too much snow.

Joe Patrice: All right. Well, so, she’s broken.

Chris Williams: Are we all in a little way.

Kathryn Rubino: Season three of COVID has not been my favorite.

Joe Patrice: I mean, bringing has an Omicron in was a weird choice.

Kathryn Rubino: It’s just a desperate bid by the producers to keep us all to you indeed.

Chris Williams: Did you all see the news? It’s like a mash up of Delta and Omicrons. Like Deltacron?

Joe Patrice: That doesn’t make sense. There are more Greek letters we can still use. We don’t need that.

Chris Williams: They’re starting to unionize. They’re grouping together.

Joe Patrice: Wait, no. Actually, the mashup that I saw is Fluorona, which is –

Kathryn Rubino: I did see that.

Chris Williams: That’s also a thing.

Kathryn Rubino: But fluorona is not like a super bug. It’s just having two different infections at the same time which is distinct biologically.

Chris Williams: It’s like Arnold Palmer.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah, which is a delicious tasty treat. Particularly if you put a little vodka in there.

(00:20:03)

Joe Patrice: Which turns it into a John Daly. Anyway –

Kathryn Rubino: That is a deep cut golf joke, Joe.

Joe Patrice: It’s not really all that deep cut. He just won a tournament with his son. Anyway, —

Kathryn Rubino: It’s pretty deep. It’s pretty deep.

Joe Patrice: Anyway, so we’ve gotten a little disjointed here. Maybe it’s time that we do some – 

Kathryn Rubino: We’re following the logical flow of conversation, Joe.

Joe Patrice: We should streamline thing. Administrative task.

Kathryn Rubino: Okay, fine. I get where you’re going. God damn it, and read go.

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Kathryn Rubino: I don’t even remember what story we’re supposed to do next, but I hope it’s okay that I’m going to laugh through most of it.

Joe Patrice: Just like Maxwell was convicted.

Kathryn Rubino: Oh, no, we actually broke Chris, you’re gaming someone with COVID laugh.

Chris Williams: I laugh sometime, that just a thing I do. It’s just I didn’t expect to laugh about –

Kathryn Rubino: But you have COVID.

Chris Williams: I’ll be fine, hopefully.

Joe Patrice: Anyway, this verdict though is now in some degree of limbo because a juror then spoke out, quasi anonymously, gave first and middle name, not full name, spoke out, claiming that he felt there was some resistance in the jury to a guilty verdict until he explained that he was a victim of sexual assault and therefore sexual abuse, I should say, and that he therefore could explain how to read the testimony of some of the victims when they didn’t remember certain details and so on and so forth. And he felt that or at least he told the media that he felt that his experiences helped sway the jury. Another juror then came forward and said the same thing, that they also were victims and spoke to the jury and felt that that also helped the jury come to a conclusion.

Kathryn Rubino: Well, that seems like information that people would have wanted to know.

Joe Patrice: So, here’s the deal with this is, this is information that the defense wanted to know. And in fact, they put together a questionnaire with a number of items on it, including, do you or anyone you know, have they ever had these experiences? And the reason was a plan to not have those people be on the jury. The first jury says that he would have answered that truthfully, but he honestly doesn’t remember it on there. There’s also some reason to believe that based on the questions asked at the screening, when jurors came back after the questionnaire and were brought in to have questions asked of them. Based on some of those questions, it appears that some people did get callbacks even though they had answered that question with yes. That said neither these two jurors were asked any follow ups about this issue. The defense is claiming they need a new trial. If these jurors did lie or mistakenly fail to acknowledge this, perhaps that would be enough to get a new trial.

Kathryn Rubino: So, there are two kinds of variables right that are going on. The first is whether or not the question was responded to accurately.

Joe Patrice: Right.

Kathryn Rubino: If they both wrote yes and there were no follow up questions asked over.

Joe Patrice: I agree. Your fault.

Kathryn Rubino: It seems like poor lawyering.

Joe Patrice: Personally, I think it’s poor lawyering even. And like I haven’t seen this questionnaire, so who knows? But if it’s remotely plausible that somebody could say I honestly don’t remember that question, that says to me that there are more questions on this questionnaire than there probably needed to be and this goes to having done some of these sorts of things before, there’s an impulse, especially among high priced defense teams, to try and micromanage who the jury is with a bunch of psychological vectors and jury consultants and whatever. And at a certain point when you’re try to micromanage so much, you make mistakes and if you had 200 questions and somebody could accidentally have answered it incorrectly because they’re trying to get through a 200 questions questionnaire.

(00:25:00)

Like that’s also on you. Like you need to be making these questions impactful, cause brevity is the soul of a questionnaire, I think. And you need to be making it clear that these are the important issues and make sure the person filling that knows how important it is, because there’s only ten, twelve questions. Anyway, that would be my take. I would kind of put some blame on the defense, too. That said, all reasonable benefits of the doubt at this stage should go toward defendants. So, you probably would pull the trigger and do a new trial anyway. But, yeah, that’s what you get when you try to overplay things. If anybody else has thoughts on juries, I may be on one this week, that’s all.

Kathryn Rubino: You have jury duty?

Joe Patrice: I do. They have already told me not to — that I didn’t have to come in the first day of it, so that’s why I’m here.

Kathryn Rubino: Yeah. I think that the court systems are dealing with this Omicron their own way, too. But, yeah, it’ll be very interesting to see if a lawyer, former criminal defense attorney/current legal industry commenter, can get themselves on a jury.

Joe Patrice: I mean, one wouldn’t think that anybody would want me there, but stranger things, I suppose, have happened.

Kathryn Rubino: That’s fair.

Chris Williams: I want to get jury duty, because the first thing I’m going to say is, yeah, I wrote a paper about how your notification should be understood by everybody as a right.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. That’ll get you off pretty quick. On the other hand, though, that’s the thing, like the kind of platonic ideal of court is that you’re on some sort of a criminal jury. But the odds are actually that you won’t be, that you’ll be on some. Absolutely a name civil dispute between two companies.

Kathryn Rubino: Slip and fall in the grocery store.

Joe Patrice: Or maybe some slip and fall. Like whatever it is, you’re going to be involved — You’re not going to be on a case where jury nullification is really the issue.

Chris Williams: I’m going to make it the issue.

Joe Patrice: That’s why, honestly, being a former criminal defense attorney is a whole deal. But I think that what I do now with Above the Law is more of a reason why nobody in a civil trial would want me on there, because I’m probably more annoying to the judges. Well, the lawyers and definitely the judges on that issue.

Chris Williams: It would be cool to see the daily story updates. It’s right on the front page. Like pony title here.

Kathryn Rubino: I think I was called for jury, duty when I was at ATL, but I never had to fill out a questionnaire. I just kind of was in the holding room pen for like three days, and then they sent me away.

Joe Patrice: Yeah. I was in the pen for three days while I was with Above the Law and then never even got called into a box. And the other time I did it was before I worked here when I was actively a criminal defense lawyer and that time I did get called into a box and they kept me, so I had to do a two-day trial. Yeah, I was shocked by that one.

Kathryn Rubino: When I was in College, I was made an alternate on a civil trial but it settled, so I didn’t actually get to be on — which was I kind of wanted to. My dad was at the time a court officer and it was at his court house and I was like my dad is going to take me out to lunch every day. I’m kind of into it but it didn’t happen.

Joe Patrice: Well, I think we’ve done everything we need to do, right? On the show.

Kathryn Rubino: I hope so. I’m done. I feel like this is all that we were actually obligated to do.

Joe Patrice: Okay, fair enough. Well, let’s finish this up, so that Chris can go rest again. Yeah. I’m sorry. I just – 

Chris Williams: I walked from my slumber to contribute to this phenomenal podcast.

Joe Patrice: Thank you.

Chris Williams: So, as we’re done. I’m going to hang upside down like a bat.

Joe Patrice: Okay. Not sure that works, but okay.

Chris Williams: I used to be a biker. I have strong legs. It makes sense.

Joe Patrice: Okay. I wasn’t doubting that you couldn’t do it. I was telling that an efficacy, but I love it. That’s the direction you took.

Chris Williams: In my job here.

Joe Patrice: Thanks, everybody, for listening. You should be subscribed to the show. So, you get new episodes when they come out. You should give us reviews, stars, write something, helps more people find the show. You should be reading Above the Law. So, you read these and other stories as they happen throughout the week. You should check out the JABO, Captains of the Show. I’m on the legal tech week journalist RoundTable every week. We have more shows that we are not on, on the Legal Talk Network that you should check out. Thanks as always to Lexicon and NOTA powered by M&T Bank for sponsoring the show. You can see us on social media. I’m @josephpatrice, she’s @kathrynI, Chris is @rightsforrent, is that everything?

Kathryn Rubino: Read Above the Law.

Chris Williams: You should also be following ATL blog. It helps me.

Joe Patrice: Yes, let’s do a follow. Yeah, that’s a good point.

Chris Williams: Stop unfollowing, Jesus.

Joe Patrice: Everybody start following @atlblog, because that’s a Twitter account. It’s easy. You get all the stories as they come out plus a few occasional fun jokes, et cetera. That is over now, puts us at the end. All right. Good bye buddy.

[Music]

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Podcast transcription by Tech-Synergy.com

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