Unraveling the Legal Tech Ecosystem: How People, Processes, and Tech Work Together

Episode Notes

Transcript

Molly Ranns:

Hello, and welcome to another edition of the State Bar of Michigan’s On Balance Podcast on Legal Talk Network. I’m Molly Ranns.

JoAnn Hathaway:

I’m JoAnn Hathaway. We are very pleased to have Colin Levy join us today to talk about unraveling the legal tech ecosystem, how people, processes, and tech work together. Colin is a speaker, writer and legal tech evangelist with more than a decade of experience in corporate transactional law. He has parlayed this experience into his speaking and writing career, educating lawyers on how to leverage technology to improve the delivery of legal services. And with that, Colin, could you share some additional information about yourself with our listeners?

Colin Levy:

Absolutely. So I have, during the course of my career, worked for a variety of companies ranging from startups to multi-billion dollar companies. I’ve, in a few occasions have been the sole attorney working for a company, and I pretty much really love living at the edge of technology, business and law as I’ve been interested in technology for pretty much my whole life. Although I would say that my real passion for technology certainly ramped up over the course of my time in college and then after law school. I’ve been really just fascinated and energized by it ever since. And it’s a pleasure to be here with you both.

Molly Ranns:

Callan, thank you so much for being here with us today. To get started, can you help us understand why lawyers should care about legal technology?

Colin Levy:

Absolutely, and actually I posted about this on LinkedIn today. We live in a world where technology is everywhere and it is doing more and more things for us by us and so on. And because of that, the legal industry can no longer really act as if it is an island unto itself immune from societal dynamics, including technology. And so I think it’s really incumbent upon all lawyers to really understand that technology’s here to stay, will continue to impact not just how law is practiced, but also what the business of law looks like. And I think that we got a very stark reminder of that last year with the rise of generative artificial intelligence where now there are a plethora of solutions that exist that are easily accessible by anyone with no tech background whatsoever, and they can now use these tools to do a variety of tasks for them.

And because of that, there are now lawyers out there that now have clients that likely are using these tools and expecting anyone they work with to be aware of these technologies and some degree of familiarity with them. And so I think that’s partly why technology is super important for lawyers to be aware of. But it’s also not just because clients are aware of these technologies, but also because these technologies are going to continue to grow and impact, grow and influence and change really how we practice law. And because of that, if you really want to remain valuable and really frankly want to maintain relevant, it’s important for you to be aware of technology and the benefits and risks of using these different types of technologies. I think we saw that reflected in the rise of this ethical duty of tech competence within the US where there now are 40 states that require lawyers to be aware of the benefits and risks that are relevant technologies as they may pertain to their practice. And that’s I think, an acknowledgement of technology’s increasing role in society and in business.

JoAnn Hathaway:

So Colin, what are the three biggest mistakes someone can make when evaluating legal technology tools?

Colin Levy:

So I think the first mistake is thinking that just because someone else happens to be using a certain piece of technology, that somehow that technology is going to be the right one for you. Having friends is great, but you don’t have your friend do all these different things for you. You find someone who is a specialist. And so likewise with technology, just because a friend maybe using a certain tool in their business doesn’t mean it may be the right tool for you because their business may be different, their users are likely going to be different, and you want to account for those differences. So while suggestions from friends are great, you also want to do the evaluation yourself. So I think that’s one sort of mistake that can be made. I think another mistake is thinking that technology somehow is going to solve all of your problems.

It’s not a panacea, it’s not going to come in and magically just resolve all the problems you may have, which points to the need to really understand exactly what problems you’re trying to solve in the first place are in terms of whether it’s a people problem, process problem, a tech problem, or some combination thereof or even a cultural problem. And the more you can understand exactly what problem it is you’re trying to solve, the more you’ll be better equipped to evaluate technologies to help solve that problem if technology is a potential solution to begin with. And then lastly, when evaluating technologies, it’s important to understand that this isn’t about just you, the decision maker, it’s also about the users. And so it’s really important to bring in your users when evaluating technologies because they’re the ones who have to use these technologies. So it’s really important to ensure that they feel like they have a stake in the matter and have a say in the matter and are part of the process. From day one. I’ve seen too many evaluating processes where users are brought in at the last minute or brought in after the fact, and that’s really problematic. Now, I’m not saying you have to bring in literally everyone who’s going to be using a tool, but you want to bring in the key stakeholders. You want to bring in people who represent different functions that are going to be impacted by potential change and potential new tool and have them provide feedback and be part of the process from day one.

Molly Ranns:

Part. Callan, how would you specifically define legal tech?

Colin Levy:

So that’s a really interesting question, and I would say that you can be defined in a couple different ways, specifically I think it can be defined as technologies that are designed to help bridge the gap between clients and lawyers in terms of those delivering legal services and those most in need of legal services. I think more broadly, legal technology is also about though recognizing the fact that technology is impacting how law is practiced and what the business of law looks like. And so legal technology I think is a recognition of that and it’s about people, process and businesses working together collaboratively to enable and help those most in need of legal services. So that’s really how I would define legal tech. Certainly there are plenty of other definitions I’ve come across and I’m not seeking to get into that debate, at least not during the course of this podcast interview.

JoAnn Hathaway:

So Colin, everywhere we turn nowadays, we hear about artificial intelligence. Can you explain how legal tech is different than artificial intelligence? And maybe to put it differently, how is artificial intelligence related to legal tech?

Colin Levy:

Sure. So legal tech encompasses a wide range of different types of technologies and tools. Artificial intelligence certainly is one set of such tools. And so I think it’s important to kind of make that distinction. And at the same time, artificial intelligence is impacting a large number of different types of tools in terms of being able to do more with certain tools because artificial intelligence being added into a certain tool or being used as part of a platform or what have you. So I think there’s sort of a symbiotic relationship between legal technology and artificial intelligence, but they are different things and artificial intelligence itself comprises a certain set of specific tools apart from other different types of legal technologies. I think that’s important to understand because I think technology these days often is conflated with artificial intelligence when really technology is existed before artificial intelligence, artificial intelligence just now is augmenting the technologies that have existed in those that will exist in the future.

Molly Ranns:

We are now going to take a short break from our conversation with Colin Levy to thank our sponsors.

JoAnn Hathaway:

Welcome back. We are here with Colin Levy talking about unraveling the legal tech ecosystem, how people, processes and tech work together.

Molly Ranns:

Colin, I am one of those people that is terrified of technology because I’m so bad with it. Can you help us understand how legal professionals overcome their fear of technology?

Colin Levy:

Sure. So I think one of the first ways to overcome the fear is to first of all acknowledge the fact that you might be already using different types of technologies in your day-to-day life. So while you may afraid of technology, you’re already using some forms of technology and therefore instead of trying to go off into the deep end with more technical tools that may exist, why just start with better understanding of the tools you use currently? That I think allows you to not only acknowledge your fear, but also acknowledge that you already are using technology and start from a place of familiarity and where you understand the tools that you already use and are seeking just to use them better and more effectively. And so I often encourage people if they’re trying to learn about legal tech or technology, but fear to start with what you already use and just start experimenting and learning more about those tools before learning about other things. Because oftentimes you can achieve quite a bit with tools you already use without having to really put your fear to the test and expose yourself to technologies you may not necessarily want to be dealing with or be prepared to use right now.

JoAnn Hathaway:

So how can someone learn about tech without being overwhelmed?

Colin Levy:

So that is an excellent question and I’ve posted about that before myself online and the way I would approach it is by starting off by asking a couple of questions and answering those questions. And one of those questions is, why do you want to learn about legal tech? Is it because you’re seeking to achieve a certain goal? Is it because you’re seeking to be more tech savvy? Is it because you see technology potentially being helpful with respect to something relating to your business or in your personal life or what have you? Answering that question can help you kind of navigate and figure out where to start with in terms of learning about legal technology. And then secondly, I think answering the question of, well, how tech savvy are you? And that can help you figure out where to start in terms of how deep to go in the legal tech space, whether you want to start with kind of learning about something that isn’t that technical, like a low-code or no-code tool, or if you’re more tech savvy, perhaps you want to learn something about data science or something a little more technical.

But I really think it starts with kind of defining your goals for why you want to learn about legal tech and then using that answer to guide your search. Otherwise, I agree it can be overwhelming to learn about legal tech. So that would be suggestion number one. Suggestion number two is I published a book last year, the Legal Tech Ecosystem. It is intended to be a very accessible non-technical introduction to this world of legal tech. And so I do think that it could be a useful book to look at in terms of understanding legal tech space and also learning about what people are doing with these tools because one thing that I’ve long done both on my personal website and also have done in the book is feature quotes from conversations I’ve had with others about their use of technology and that I think in turn helps make the use of technology more relatable, more understandable, more accessible to those wanting to learn more about it.

Molly Ranns:

Call you talk about your book, you use the word ecosystem and you talk about unraveling the legal tech ecosystem. And I found that to be such an interesting choice of words. Can you help us understand why you call legal tech an ecosystem?

Colin Levy:

Sure. It really stems from an understanding that technology by itself is great, but technology really I think becomes valuable when it’s used by people. And so people using technology, people using technology in a process that is part of a business all working together in a collaborative way and helping one another and supporting one another. And so that’s really why I see it as an ecosystem. And it starts with people, it doesn’t start with tech, it starts with people who want to learn and use tech. And so that’s really what started this approach of looking at legal tech as an ecosystem of people, process, tech and business. And so really it’s all these different pieces that are interdependent upon one another and impacting one another in ways both seen and unseen.

JoAnn Hathaway:

So how can lawyers learn about tech without that knowledge becoming obsolete as soon as they’ve learned it?

Colin Levy:

So that’s an excellent question. And so I think it starts with rather than trying to learn about specific tools, perhaps learn about concepts that underlie these tools in terms of analyzing data, in terms of reviewing documents and how documents are reviewed and how technology reviews documents or how technologies draft different types of things, whether it’s clauses or text or analytics or what have you, because the concept underlying these tools is unlikely to change. The tools themselves are likely to change, not necessarily in terms of what they do per se, but perhaps in how they do it and also how quickly do it because as we’ve seen with artificial intelligence, certainly that the rise of generative AI is impacting, I think the ability of these tools to do in more and more quickly. And so I think it often starts with starting to understand the concepts that underlie these technologies before learning specific tools because the tools likely will change over time, but the concepts will not necessarily.

JoAnn Hathaway:

Well, it seems we’ve come to the end of our show. We’d like to thank our guest today, Colin Levy, for a wonderful program.

Molly Ranns:

Colin, if our listeners would like to follow up with you, what is the best way to do so?

Colin Levy:

They can find me on LinkedIn under my name. They can also go to my website, colin s levy.com. That’s C-O-L-I-N-S-L-E-V y.com. And if they happen to be interested in contracts and my work with Malbec, they can also learn more about me and Malbec at www.malbecmalbek.io.

Molly Ranns:

Thank you again for joining us today, Colin.

Colin Levy:

Thanks very much. It was a pleasure.

Molly Ranns:

This has been another edition of the State Bar of Michigan On Balance Podcast on Legal Talk Network.

JoAnn Hathaway:

I’m JoAnn Hathaway.

Molly Ranns:

And I am Molly Ranns. Until next time, thank you for listening.

Speaker 4:

Thank you for listening to the State Bar of Michigan On Balance Podcast, brought to you by the State Bar of Michigan, and produced by the broadcast professionals at Legal Talk Network. If you’d like more information about today’s show, please visit legal talk network.com. Subscribe Vieth Apple Podcasts and RSS, find the State Bar of Michigan and Legal Talk Network on Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn, or download Legal Talk Network’s, free app in Google Play and iTunes. The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of nor are they endorsed by Legal Talk Network or the State Bar of Michigan or their respective officers, directors, employees, agents, representatives, shareholders, and subsidiaries. None of the content should be considered legal advice. As always, consult a lawyer.