Live From The 2023 NALA Conference: An Inside Look

Episode Notes

Transcript

[Music]

Jill Francisco: So hello, this is Jill Francisco with The Paralegal Voice and we are here at the NALA 2023 Annual Convention Conference in Boston and we are super excited to just you know be here live and have a great gathering to paralegals and also to kind of set aside a little time to bring in some of the action and what’s going on and some opinions and some comments of some people that are here on site to some of our listeners that listen to our episodes and obviously couldn’t make it and maybe want to see if this would be beneficial for you to come in the future.

So we have a great contingency, we’re on day one, so we’re really hitting it off. We are not really deep into all our education but we have definitely started off with a bang. So and I am super excited here to have Cassandra Oliver-Divens with me. She is a NALA Past President, she was actually before me on the board so I got to watch many years, Cassandra, great leadership through the years, Cassandra. We have different, you know, obviously, leadership styles, different personalities and everything, but I always enjoyed learning from Cassandra and watching your example that you set before us.

And so, then hopefully, when I got my chance, that I could lead NALA in the positive direction, as I know, that you did. So I’m super excited to have Cassandra with me today.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Glad to be here with you Jill, and yes, you soared. So, so grateful for your leadership and what you’re bringing to the paralegal profession.

Jill Francisco: Thank you, Cassandra. And then we have Joey Jones, which is a current student, and also first-timer of the NALA Conference. So he’s going to kind of maybe give two little opinions and maybe some comments that our listeners might find valuable if they’re thinking about trying to either get into the paralegal field. I think you’re on the end right, you’re getting to the Finish Line, you’re seeing the Finish Line.

Joey Jones: Yes, ma’am.

Jill Francisco: So you’re going to be graduating soon. So anybody that may be on the fence and thinking about getting into the career, Joey is going to be able to provide maybe some insight on that, and then also being here first time, what is convention like already, we’re just, you know, not even a day in, but we’re starting off with a bang and how do you feel so far. So anyway, thank you so much Joey for joining us.

Joey Jones: Thank you for having me. I’ve been having so much fun so far. It’s been truly a good time, so taking it all in.

Jill Francisco: This is a lot, a lot.

Joey Jones: Yes.

Jill Francisco: So, let’s just talk about Cassandra, how you’ve been — let me see, you were, I was what 18 to 20, correct, I was president. So you were 16?

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes to 18.

Jill Francisco: 16 to 18. It’s like we’ve got to think about it.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: We’ve got to go back.

Jill Francisco: We’ve got to think about it. And so, you’ve been out a little bit, and so, how was the coming back? I mean, I know you’ve still come back, and I know you would, because, I mean, it’s like, once we’re dedicated to NALA, we’re dedicated to NALA, right, but how has it been coming back?

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: In this, this year is spent energizing and even more so, and I think after the pandemic, every year in person is a blessing and excited.

Jill Francisco: Yes, thankful.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: And yes, thankful, and I’m so grateful that NALA is continuing to bring to paralegals what we need for us to continue our competency and to stay in the evolving profession that we’re in, knowing that it’s changing. And so, it’s electrifying as well as fulfilling and that I’m getting content.

Jill Francisco: Right.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: It’s not just, so it’s good to network and that’s part of it. But it’s good to get professional development.

Jill Francisco: Correct. And isn’t it fun to come back and we don’t like we’re not going to the meetings and we’re not —

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes, don’t have all the balls in the air juggling —

Jill Francisco: And we’re trying to — we are trying to see all the members and we’re trying to do so many things when we’re here in our leadership capacity and it is a treat, and we can win door prizes.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes, yes.

Jill Francisco: As a side note, as a side note. So what — did you go to the ethics and what did you feel about that this afternoon?

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes, I went to the ethics.

Jill Francisco: Which one?

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: And it was very beneficial and pertinent. Part of what I like is that I want information that I can apply and it was practical and informative and I walked away with a lot of information.

Jill Francisco: Right. And that’s saying something because Cassandra I mean, how long have you been — I mean you could tell why don’t you tell our listeners a little bit about like, where you were — I mean, I know, you got to Tulsa, coincidentally NALA Headquarters location but also tell me a little bit about your — because you’re well, I mean experienced seasoned paralegal at your Williams because you’re still at the, yeah.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes, I’m at Williams right now. It’s, I have been a paralegal for over 30 years, a long time.

Jill Francisco: Ooh, yeah.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Some people who weren’t born yet and it’s been rewarding because I earlier on I joined the local Association a TAPA and I got engaged and got connected with other paralegals that were example and guide to me. And then later on, I got connected to NALA.

(00:05:06)

Jill Francisco: Yeah.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: So now I started at a private law firm. Now I work for a legal department at the Williams Company and it’s been a blessing. One, the caliber of company that it is, but also the attorneys that I work for, the paralegals that I work with and the whole support staff, but part of what has been key is managing my career, that I understood that early and I connected with people knowing that no man is an island, you need people to grow with, to learn from and it’s been rewarding for me.

Jill Francisco: Well, and I think that really that’s kudos to NALA’s education, because you have Joey here that’s going to, we’re going to see his insight on being a first-timer and what he’s learning from our segments. But then you have, you know, like you said a season. I mean, you’ve been, you’ve had, I mean, you even know how many hours of Ethics over the years and, but it’s changing and it’s always new. And like you said, if you can get that, even if it’s just one takeaway, you know it’s nice to know that NALA is still putting like you said, the content out there, that is different, whether you’re brand-new through the door, a little bit into your education, towards the end of your education or new paralegal, seasoned paralegal, you’re still taking those takeaways.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: I agree.

Jill Francisco: Which is, what we all need, paralegal education, that’s the goal.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yeah. And you’re learning from each other and part of the networking at conferences, you are meeting people from all across the country and from some of our — some other locations that are outside of the country.

Jill Francisco: Right.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: And you’re networking with them and learning about the different fields and different areas and positions that paralegals hold.

Jill Francisco: Right.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: My horizon has been broadened significantly since I got involved with NALA and realized that paralegals have transferable skills.

Jill Francisco: I know.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: That they could do a variety of different things.

Jill Francisco: Especially nowadays.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes.

Jill Francisco: So Joey, so Cassandra said, she said she went to Ethics, I assume you went to there to, what was your kind of take, because that’s probably as I said you’ve been having Ethics probably in school.

Joey Jones: Yes.

Jill Francisco: In your classes, but like how did — I mean I’m sure it was hopefully still beneficial to you what NALA was putting on the table before us today.

Joey Jones: Actually, yeah, this semester it was for Ethics support of paralegals, one of the classes taking this semester and actually part of the cases that was used in the example, I am learning about that this week.

Jill Francisco: Perfect, perfect.

Joey Jones: So it’s just tying it in. I want to just give a shout —

Jill Francisco: Missouri v. Jenkins, no.

Joey Jones: It was, exactly. That was the one we are learning about this week, so you know tying it all in, and I like to just give a shout-out to my professor, Melissa Ansley Brooks, she is the program head for the Paralegal Department at my school at J. Sargeant Reynolds Community College.

Jill Francisco: Wonderful.

Joey Jones: She has been wonderful. So, I sent her a quick message with the screenshot that was like, is this look familiar, part of this week’s module and, you know, so of course, like we’re learning about the Model Rules and everything, the ABA Model Rules in.

Jill Francisco: Yeah.

Joey Jones: And so it’s just like a good tie in of what I’ve already learned, learning and because I have learned about UPL in course, that previous semester. So it’s all just tying it in, it’s just learning, it’s just going with the flow.

Jill Francisco: Yeah. And it’s good to know that like you said, what you’re learning locally is also what’s on the national front, and that’s an important case, and it’s important case no matter where we are.

Joey Jones: Exactly.

Jill Francisco: But let me just say, so what was your thought would like coming in here and like now you’re with 400 of your peers, soon-to-be peers, maybe you. How’s that fun? I mean —

Joey Jones: You know, it’s been wonderful I guess because we got the name badges, so we’re you could pick us out and it’s just like really welcoming.

Jill Francisco: Oh perfect.

Joey Jones: That’s, that’s the best example. It’s a very welcoming. I’ve had such a great time, I’m having fun, I’m meeting lots of new people so —

Jill Francisco: From all over the place I assume.

Joey Jones: Exactly. Yes, ma’am, and a lot of people surprised about, you know the amount of people came from Virginia.

Jill Francisco: Yeah.

Joey Jones: Virginia has been one of the many states that I have heard 09:01, that’s just been you know surprising, just everybody, it’s been welcoming, it’s been great. I’m having so much fun good.

Jill Francisco: Good, and you know and Cassandra knows over the years, we love our first-timers.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes, yes.

Jill Francisco: Because we want all the first timers to turn into long timers year after year after year. So we do really I think pride everyone, whether it’s our paid staff, whether it’s our volunteers, our leadership, I think everyone, even attendee, I mean whatever, attendees that’s been coming over the years, they are trying to be welcoming. I was laughing today, Cassandra because I said, okay, I think I’ve been every year since 2002.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Wow.

Jill Francisco: Right.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Commitment.

Joey Jones: Except that one.

Jill Francisco: Except that —

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yeah, yeah.

Jill Francisco: We still attended, we couldn’t show up it with our boots on the ground.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: In person.

Jill Francisco: But yeah. The other thing that I think is amazing about that though is that you know I always feel like, when you said energy, that’s a big key to me. Like I feel like even though you’re a long paralegal and you’ve around, and you’ve already been working in the field or you’ve been a student and you’re already been in your zone, no matter where you are, you come here and you leave like feeling energized and feeling like, okay, I’m good.

(00:10:12)

Like if I was stressed, if I was kind of bummed, if I was kind of in a rut, if I was just kind of, doing the day-to-day when you come back and you return, it’s always amazing. And you share stuff and you feel energized, and I know that’s probably — that’s one of the reason why we come back, isn’t it?

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yeah, I think so.

Jill Francisco: I mean —

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: And I think should be fun.

Jill Francisco: Yeah.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Sometimes people like, oh learning, but it should be fun.

Jill Francisco: Yeah, I have to sit in the CLE all day. Well, there’s a lot more to it if you really get your boots on the ground here.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes. And you see the high caliber of speakers, the presenters that NALA —

Jill Francisco: Year after year.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes. And you’re taking that back to your company, or Law Firm or wherever you are.

Jill Francisco: Sharing.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yeah, it’s benefiting all the around, we come and we work hard, and we come in and we enjoy it and so refresher, so we go back to recharge.

Jill Francisco: Yeah.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Ready for another year.

Jill Francisco: Yeah. All right, well, we’re going to take a quick break here for just a minute and to thank our sponsors, and we’ll be right back with you.

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Jill Francisco: Thank you for coming back. Well, I’m sitting here today with Cassandra and Joey, and we’re going to continue our conversation about the awesome things that are going on at the NALA Conference 2023 in Boston.

So Joey was just, we were just discussing how you started, we want to rope in because we love our listeners and we obviously want our listeners to have good takeaways like Cassandra was taking, saying takeaways from the CLEs, we want takeaways for the podcast too for paralegals to learn if they listen to the show and Joey was just explaining how, you know, you listen to the show and then you got the heads-up about conference and other things that you learned about. And now you’re taking advantage all that and you were talking about your professor that also mentioned things because she’s been in the field and were doing things.

So how did you first listen to the podcast? Did your professor mentioned it to you or how that go?

Joey Jones: Honestly, I just typed into Pandora —

Jill Francisco: Paralegal.

Joey Jones: Paralegal.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: All right.

Jill Francisco: There we go.

Joey Jones: And legal.

Jill Francisco: Yeah.

Joey Jones: Both those searches and just started listening and everything and it’s great because, you know, just it’s my road trip. So that’s what I do for my road trips, just listen to the legal podcast and that’s pretty much all I would listen to when I’m doing a drive. So, yeah.

Jill Francisco: Well and you probably — like I said and then you found this, so that we’re awesome that you, we’re happy you found us and then you’re — but then you listen to some episodes and then now you got all these good takeaways.

Joey Jones: Sure.

Jill Francisco: And it’s brought you actually so you’ve listened to it virtually basically, over the airwaves, and now it’s brought you here in person. And so, I mean, I think that you definitely learned, I mean that like hey, it sounded good, it sounded good. You heard it from past people that attended, you heard from people saying you should attend and here you are. So —

Joey Jones: That’s right.

Jill Francisco: We’re happy that that all transpired and calculated into getting you, you know boots on the ground.

Joey Jones: Yeah, because you pick up little things like NALA.

Jill Francisco: Yeah.

Joey Jones: Just so, just little stuff like that, going on their website, it just like, like I said earlier just gave the discounted rate for the early bird.

Jill Francisco: Oh yeah.

Joey Jones: I’m taking full advantage of the student memberships.

Jill Francisco: Yeah.

Joey Jones: So, I got the free membership with RPA, Richmond Paralegal Association, got the student membership for here, for the conference. So trying to take as much as knowledge as I can because networking and just being as much as you can.

Jill Francisco: Yeah.

Joey Jones: And another thing is just like as long as you know you’re not going to make the biggest mistake and like blow up something. It’s good to just get what you can, make your mistakes, learn from it.

Jill Francisco: Right.

Joey Jones: And move on. So, it’s been wonderful, just the experience so far. So I am waiting forward in it, can’t wait for the next two days what’s to come.

(00:14:53)

Jill Francisco: Yeah, next two days is CLE hitting hard with all the choices, and it’s nice they — for our listeners that haven’t been here in person and for virtual, I know we have a separate program, but they offer usually a lot of the segments twice. And so, sometimes it’s hard to choose, because like Cassandra was saying, we have so much good quality, not only speakers themselves, but also their topics.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes.

Jill Francisco: There are things that are of interest, there are things that are hot right now and things that we need to know, and it’s — and so sometimes you have to choose but they offer them another day so that’s kind of a luxury. When you’re here in person you can say oh well that one’s offered tomorrow afternoon so I can take it, I can take it, this one I want now and get to that one later on.

So Cassandra, are you taking all the CLE this year?

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: I am, indeed yes.

Jill Francisco: Okay, okay.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: And I just want to comment that Joey, I love the fact that you are, you’ve been intentional with you hear about something and you take advantage of it. And that’s so good. And listening to the podcast, and you’re driving and you’re listening, that’s a good trait. Well done.

Jill Francisco: Multitask.

Joey Jones: Right, yeah.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yeah, multitasking.

Jill Francisco: Already, you are in the paralegal world.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: And continue to learn on different in different environments.

Joey Jones: Yeah.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: And so that is good.

Joey Jones: Yeah, because I am taking full advantage of my GI Bill.

Jill Francisco: Wonderful.

Joey Jones: So I am a full time student, I am not working. Last semester I made a mistake of doing six legal classes, 18 credits.

Jill Francisco: Oh God.

Joey Jones: So, I’m committed. So yeah, I survived it, but like, that’s how I maybe hopefully graduate next semester.

Jill Francisco: Oh wonderful.

Joey Jones: So I have three classes.

Jill Francisco: Fast track that right there.

Joey Jones: Exactly.

Jill Francisco: All right, that’s great.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: That’s good. With my 30 plus years of being a paralegal, I’m still learning and growing and the market is changing. So coming to NALA Conference provides a resource for me that I need for my career.

Jill Francisco: Right. And I feel like too, which you probably felt, I mean Tulsa and then I’m obviously in Huntington, West Virginia. I mean not that we’re, like out in the sticks, but we’re not exactly in a big huge city and we’re not, sometimes you feel like, are we seeing what’s really going on, are we, are we really getting the full picture. And so that’s another advantage that I always like when you come here whether it’s through the CLEs or just talking, like you said to people, to people you know, people you don’t know, conversations that get struck up while you’re waiting to go into lunch. I mean, just sidebars, it’s like it’s always beneficial it seems.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes.

Jill Francisco: Because people are so — I don’t know, like when you said they’re so welcoming, I mean, I know it sounds like we’re a broken record about it, but it really is, it really is.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: They are, yes, I agree.

Jill Francisco: Lifelong friendships, like I mean friends that I have, some of my best friends are not in Huntington, West Virginia, they are from all across the country and that’s because of the paralegal profession bringing us together and then you know having the platform that NALA provides for us to come and network, and —

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: I agree.

Jill Francisco: Because that’s really it’s all about.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yeah.

Jill Francisco: I mean I’m sure you use it.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes.

Jill Francisco: Don’t you love how when your attorney will say we need to serve some subpoenas and, Florida and you’re like, oh yeah, I’m all over it. Like it’s, like it’s going to be a problem, and it’s like no, I know like 20 paralegals.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: I have contacts.

Jill Francisco: Yeah. And that’s, I mean that’s obviously good for you, but it’s good ultimately for your company and/or if you’re a client based business which is what it’s all about, providing the services that we do.

So I think when you’re trying to get — for those listening and maybe you haven’t been able to come for whatever reason, getting your employers, that’s something you can say, it’s like, it’s seriously, it is not only going to benefit in knowledge, but I mean, it really does benefit the networking. It’s not just — I mean, yeah, you might be having a drink, or you might be having some lunch and you feel like you’re having some downtime, but those downtime conversations when they occur, turn out to be very beneficial in the long run.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yeah, you’re building relationships that you never know when you’re going to, you can call and get help.

Jill Francisco: Right.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: A phone a friend.

Jill Francisco: Phone a friend. Helpline yeah.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: On the line. So yeah, and I, like I said, I am not taking the full CLE this year because I’m speaking and I’m speaking, presenting in the CP track, which I’m super excited about doing torts and civil litigation. Those is what I do all day, every day, so it’s kind of easy. And I feel like it’s fun because with NALA, there is books, there’s resources as you know classes that NALA point you to when you’re ready to take the CP Exam, but I try to bring things that like happened last week, something because I’m there every day and something because even though yeah that might not be on the test, it’s going to be helpful to them.

Jill Francisco: That’s good.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: So I try to bring that element and I — like you said, when you talk about ever-changing, I mean technology.

Jill Francisco: Yes.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: I mean that’s one of the big reasons I think we need to come and I know they’re having, it’s about the social media and the text messages and preserving, and things like that.

Joey Jones: Post-pandemic, yeah.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Because I mean I don’t know if you’ve had to do any of that, but it’s hard getting the records now and if any tips and tricks that you can get, I mean that’s another reason for new paralegals that are just starting out or maybe they’re looking for a job and anything you were mentioning earlier when we were just talking, anything that you can do to make yourself more marketable.

Jill Francisco: Yes.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Put something else in your back pocket that someone else is not going to have, and that’s really I think what NALA sometimes brings to you when you’re here, you just never know.

Jill Francisco: Yeah, that’s true.

(00:20:01)

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: You could be walking down here and all of a sudden, you say hey, you know like your dress and then all of a sudden it turns into some knowledgeable information that you use down the road. So I’m sure that’s been your experience.

Joey Jones: I’m actually doing both. So I’m doing a little bit of the CLE, some little bit of CP classes.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Oh no, oh the review, okay, well that’s nice, okay.

Joey Jones: Yeah, so yeah, so because eventually I would like to CP Exam, so later on down the road, so it’s a good thing that I’m getting the information where I can.

Jill Francisco: A lot of people take it right when they graduate, but some don’t. I mean I graduated in 94, I didn’t take it, I was pregnant with JD, with my son, so I don’t know what I was waiting till then, but anyway.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: But you did, so that’s good.

Jill Francisco: But I did, but I get, but I get a pass and it’s so gratifying when you do pass.

Joey Jones: I’m a big procrastinator so let’s not add that to the list. I am going to try —

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Do it now, focus, and focus.

Joey Jones: Exactly —

Jill Francisco: You are in your zone.

Joey Jones: I am.

Jill Francisco: Just keep going straight ahead, straight ahead.

Joey Jones: Try and get it before they put bankruptcy into it.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: That’s coming that.

Jill Francisco: Are you take — are you kind of what are you looking forward to Cassandra if you kind of looked over the agenda.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes.

Jill Francisco: Do you have any that you’re kind of excited about?

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes, the social media is part of it. Real estate, I worked with —

Jill Francisco: I try to forgot, they have some really cool real estate things.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: And I would challenge the paralegals to invest in themselves, and I’m fortunate and blessed, I’m grateful that my employer, the committee where I work has invested in me and so that I can continue my education.

Jill Francisco: Yeah.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: But I remember a time when I worked at a private law firm that I had to put up the money and invest in yourself. If you were blessed to have your employee do pass —

Jill Francisco: Take advantage of it.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: And take advantage of it. And if not save up, you worth it, invest in yourself to manage your career.

Jill Francisco: Those are some great words of advice, because like you said sometimes you kind of just overlook it and sometimes we put ourselves last and you have family and you have things, but when you look at it down the road I think it’s a small, like you said a small thing in the grand scheme of things to do for yourself.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes.

Jill Francisco: And like you said, we’re worth it, paralegals, we are valuable.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes.

Jill Francisco: We’re awesome, and it’s definitely worth it. So anyway, let’s take a quick break again to thank our sponsors and we’ll be right back.

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Jill Francisco: Welcome back to The Paralegal Voice. I’m Jill Francisco, and I’m so pleased again to have a nice conversation today here live at the NALA 2023 Conference in Boston with Cassandra and Joey, and we were just kind of — I was asking what Cassandra is looking forward to and, because we’re going to have — we’re going to be hitting it heavy here in the next couple of days. And so we wanted to kind of throw that to Joey and talk about, what are you looking forward to Joey in the next couple of days with the education and the awesome schedule that NALA has laid out for us?

Joey Jones: So, definitely, I’m going to be attending the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment CLEs and then the Roe v. Wade.

Jill Francisco: Oh.

Joey Jones: So that’s going to be a —

Jill Francisco: I am going to go with that one. I am attending that one.

Joey Jones: So that’s going to be a popular one.

Jill Francisco: Yeah. And I’ll see you for torts as well, so–

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Okay.

Joey Jones: So I’m looking for just — I’m looking forward to that. So just the information that’s going to come down with that.

Jill Francisco: You’re towards the end of your paralegal education, but what brought you to be a paralegal? Like you’re doing all this stuff, you’re doing all the right things right now, but what drew you to the field?

Joey Jones: Sure, just my love for history, politics, government and just it was — just loving to leap.  Somewhere, deep down liking leap, years ago I actually bought a Black’s Law Dictionary just for you know table piece, coffee table. So just, and finally, after 2020 just decided to make it official and go for it, and I’ve been enjoying it and having fun. So that’s why I’m doing this.

Jill Francisco: And Cassandra and just to kind of have something to compare because I don’t even know if I have ever asked you, what drew you to be a paralegal?

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Okay. Part of what drew me was my family — makes from a large family.

Jill Francisco: Oh, I do know, I do know that.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yeah.

Jill Francisco: I do love your large family.

(00:24:56)

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Love in siblings, large family, thank God for them. But I love being engaged and doing things together with people, and that’s what drew me. I worked as a legal secretary and then I became a paralegal and helping the attorney, supporting other groups and looking and supporting the clients that the attorneys have, those things motivated me to continue. I love the opportunity that NALA gave me when I got my CPA, and that motivated me to continue to develop myself. So I was getting together, working in teams and the results when they are great, we got to win at Trial, that’s super, but I got wins even when we didn’t win at Trial, I was growing and learning and developing.

Jill Francisco: Oh yeah, you know how it is, what is that learning more from the struggle, from the losses sometimes.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes, that is great.

Jill Francisco: I mean —

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Good speaker that this morning.

Jill Francisco: That’s a lesson, that’s a lesson. And just to kind of let you guys know too, because that reminded me when you talked about the — your political, just general interest in the law, so I was in tenth grade, and I took, we had electives in high school and I took a general law elective, and it was like what’s this whatever, so I take it, and I was totally interested in it. And my mom was, my mother was in a different profession, she was dental hygienist, I know you know that. I know Cassandra knows that, but what I did know, even at a young age that she loved her profession and she loved her job.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Makes a difference.

Jill Francisco: And she didn’t mind going there day in day out, and she also went above and beyond and she didn’t want to just do her just task that at hand, she wanted to grow the profession, she wanted to do more, she wanted to you know always do the most that she could do.

And so I, I saw that and I thought hey, I am interested in this, it’s fun, I want to do it, I motivated to do it, and that’s kind of what brought me then to look out and try to look out scope at schools and things like that that had certain degrees, and for whatever reason, because two-year degrees, four-year degrees, experience, the CP, there is all combination nowadays on how to become a paralegal and I think any of them are fine. I will get on my soapbox for a minute to say you do need to do something.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes.

Jill Francisco: To train yourself.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: I agree.

Jill Francisco: Because it is a specialized profession. It’s not walk through the door and just try to do it. It is a specialized profession. There are substantive skills and a skillset needed. So I do think you need something. How you get there — we don’t have a one track.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Right.

Jill Francisco: We have, you can be a combination, but on the educational soapbox I think you do need some. But I got the Bachelor’s degree in Criminal Justice with a concentration on legal studies, but ended up taking, they had other two concentrations Law Enforcement and Corrections, and I ended up taking all those classes. Because as electives, because they came easy to me, and they were interesting to me.

And as you know that’s easy to do, it’s easier to go to a job that you love.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes.

Jill Francisco: It’s easier to do well at something that you love. So it sounds like, I mean obviously we are all here, we are all loving the profession but we all came kind of about it different ways and for different reasons, but here we are and obviously going to be and are successful paralegals. So you are looking forward to taking some classes tomorrow —

Joey Jones: I am.

Jill Francisco: And getting some good, so getting some good knowledge, and I am not taking full CLE, I admitted slacked off a little bit. Sometimes you need a break, right Cassandra?

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes, that’s true. But you are still giving and that’s something about the profession is that paralegals that give back.

Jill Francisco: That is true.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: And you have done that through the years.

Jill Francisco: Thank you, thank you. That is funny that you say that, I think paralegals that’s a trait, don’t she think.

Joey Jones: Yes.

Jill Francisco: Always helping.

Cassandra Oliver-Divens: Yes.

Jill Francisco: Wanting to share, share the knowledge, so, it’s awesome that you bring that. But I, I really appreciate you guys joining me today. I hope that you enjoy the rest of the conference, and I hope our listeners will get to take away some of this from this episode, if they were on the fence about coming, maybe they will join virtually, maybe they will come in person, maybe you will convince someone to be a paralegal.

Joey Jones: Please come on now.

Jill Francisco: Please, yeah, that hasn’t, that’s been on the fence, but anything we can do, we want to be there for our listeners and let our listeners Paralegal Voice be heard.

So anyway, this is Jill Francisco, signing off for The Paralegal Voice. Please join us next time.

[Music]

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