Solo, But Not? Shared Office Space (Plus, Chatbots and A.I.)

Episode Notes

Transcript

[Music]

Intro: New approach, new tools, new mindset, new solo.

Adriana Linares: Coming to you live.  Well, not live because this is a podcast.  But coming to you not live that coast to coast today on New Solo, my name is Adriana Linares.  I’m your host.  Hopefully you know that.  And I’ve got a co-host today.  I’m not even going to call Jared Correia a guest.

Jared Correia: What?

Adriana Linares: Yeah.  I’m going to call you a co-host.

Jared Correia: All right.

Adriana Linares: If you have your own podcast also, is that correct Jared Correia?

Jared Correia: Yes, I have two, actually.

Adriana Linares: Tell us about it.

Jared Correia: Including one on, ah, it’s like one on Legal Talk Network, which is a network that we share called Legal Toolkit.  We talk about business management topics for Lawyers, technology, and whatever other sunrise stuff I can come up with.  And then I got a podcast for Above the Law, call the non-event cast, which focuses exclusively on legal technology.

Adriana Linares: So, Judge Barbara Leach and Jack Newton and I have the nope cast.

Jared Correia: Oh, I like that.

Adriana Linares: Which is there’s no podcast, but we talk around, we sit around sometimes talking about what we would talk about if we had a podcast, and it’s the nope cast.

Jared Correia: The non-podcast podcast, we’re getting very, very meta here.

Adriana Linares: Can you tell everybody what you do, and there are so many things.  I mean, I got ten minutes for this opening.

Jared Correia: I will do like two minutes.

Adriana Linares: I know.

Jared Correia: I can tell people what I do quickly.  So, I do two things primarily.  So, I have a business management consulting company for Lawyers, which I’ve been running for almost ten years at this point.  It’s called Red Cave Law Firm Consulting.  I’ve got subscription clients on that and that’s kind of high-level strategy consulting.  We have partnerships with that Wednesday like 25 bar associations at this point.

Adriana Linares: Can you tell us what that means, high-level strategy?  For Lawyers that are listening to this, who might be looking for business management versus, I mean, you still do practice management and technology consulting but you’re describing it a little differently than the way I would describe my practice which is not business management.

Jared Correia: Yes.  Right.

Adriana Linares: So, can you help us understand why someone would hire you and not me?

Jared Correia: Yeah.  And I am happy to and have referred people to you because I think we have things that we do.

Adriana Linares: Yeah.

Jared Correia: So, I kind of think that there’s like technology implementation, which is like, how do you set up a technology, how do you manage it.  I want no part of that.  I want to be the guy who’s like, okay.  I’m issue spotting problems in your practice like, you’re raise are not high enough.  You need this type of technology software.  You’re growing, but you have trouble hiring people.  So, kind of decisions you would make as an owner or managing partner of a firm.  And the way I see it is like, lawyers are not generally great at making those decisions.  Because they never had any training in it.  They don’t know what they’re doing.  So, the way I kind of pitched the services is like, imagine if you had a partner in your Law firm who actually knew how to run a business so you could talk to on a recurring basis.  And so that’s me.  That’s me.  And the best part of it is I don’t even have to practice law, which is great.

Adriana Linares: Are you — Do you have a JD?

Jared Correia: Yeah, I do.  I practice for about five years.

Adriana Linares: No kidding.

Jared Correia: Coming out of Law school.  Yeah, but I hated Law school

Adriana Linares: Yeah.

Jared Correia: When I was in Law school and I was like a 2L, I went to the career services office, bad mistake, by the way.  And I was like, “Hey, I really want to do consulting with lawyers like business management is something.  I think that’d be fun.” And they were like, “That is the stupidest idea we’ve ever heard.”

Adriana Linares: No one does that.  They don’t need that.

Jared Correia: And then like ten years later, they hired me as a consultant, so I won that round, I guess.

Adriana Linares: You know, this is so fortuitous.  I swear, the universe– Okay, I’m just going to say this, it loves me.  The universe just, it does.

Jared Correia: They knew that.

Adriana Linares: This is really funny.  Today, so I don’t know if everyone knows this.  I’m the practice management adviser for the San Diego County Bar.

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: Then Nebraska Bar, by the way, so, if you’re a member of the Nebraska.

Jared Correia: Kudos to you.

Adriana Linares: If you’re a sustaining member of the Nebraska bar, you can make appointments and meet with me.  Same with the San Diego County Bar, SDSU, and then I also run the technology help desk for Florida Bar.  So, if you’re a solo small firm attorney in Florida–

Jared Correia: You’ve been in Florida Bar for a while.

Adriana Linares: I’ve been, yes.  But all of that to say that I have attorneys coming at me and also my private practice from all angles.  And today, I got a chat from an attorney in Nebraska, and here’s what it says “I am a lawyer in an office sharing arrangement with four other Lawyers.  We have two and three-quarter staff and a college kid who is our runner.

(00:05:00)

A couple of us feel that there are problems with the management of our office.  Is this something you can help with?”

My response is going to be, because I told him I have to get back with him.  My answer to him was going to be, “No, I don’t do that.” But now I have someone to refer him to, right?  Is that what takes of–

Jared Correia: Yeah.  I love all those problems.  Yeah, that’s a great example of problems I try to solve for attorneys.

Adriana Linares: Oh, well, that’s awesome.  Then I’m absolutely going to send him your way.

Jared Correia: I’m your guy, I’m your guy.

Adriana Linares: Okay.  So let me ask you this.  When somebody comes to you with a question like that, “We are having the problem with the management of our office”, that’s pretty broad.  He didn’t really give me much more information.

Jared Correia: And that’s usually how it comes in people are like, “Hey, I got issues.” I’m like, “Okay.”

Adriana Linares: And this is interesting too, because they’re in an office sharing arrangement, which means they must each run their own solo practice.  How would you approach this question?

Jared Correia: Yeah, so that’s like a traditional, I actually run into firms that still do this.  And I use the term firm loosely, right?  So that would be what I would call like an old school professional association, which is a bunch of solo attorneys, populating a shared space.

So, I mean, some people do that, they pull it off.  But there are significant challenges with that.  And I literally was just talking to another firm about this last week.  Some of the challenges are, technically, because you’re sharing that space, your subject to each other’s ethical and malpractice issues.  So, it’s a good idea to get shared malpractice insurance if you’re doing that.  And if you do, maybe you consider doing a more formal arrangement–

Adriana Linares: Wait, wait, wait, wait.  Hold on.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Adriana Linares: Back up.  Shared?  Malpractice insurance is a thing?

Jared Correia: You could do it.  Yeah, you could.  Depends on how you want to set it up.

Adriana Linares: Is that not what you just said?

Jared Correia: Yes, I did.  I did.

Adriana Linares: Well, I just feel like if we had a “ting” that would go off whenever there was a bright idea in this podcast, it would have happened in that moment when you said shared malpractice.

Jared Correia: I feel like we need that.  Yeah.  And then, you know, even if you have of counsel attorneys that work with your firm, you get malpractice insurance for them, too.  There’s a lot of different ways to arrange this.

Adriana Linares: Do you help with malpractice insurance questions?

Jared Correia: I know enough to be dangerous, but I do have some people I can refer out to who are really good with those questions.

Adriana Linares: When a lawyer wants to know what type of entity to start, with you know whether they should have a DBA or– you help with that?

Jared Correia: I can start that conversation, yeah.  But ultimately, I think they want to have a conversation with their accountant.

Adriana Linares: Yeah.  That’s what I was telling.

Jared Correia: About their specific finances.  But yeah, I can get them started on the conversation for sure.

Adriana Linares: Yeah.

Jared Correia: I talk about that with people.  Yeah, I guess like the way I kind of approach this is like, kind of like an old war veteran.  I’ve seen a lot of stuff in law firms.

Adriana Linares: No kidding.

Jared Correia: So, there’s general in you too, right?  So generally, there’s not an issue that somebody comes up to me where I’m like, “Wow, that’s a totally novel issue that I’ve never heard of before.” Like, I can mostly solve them or at least because I try to do the high-level strategy stuff.  If somebody comes to me and they’re like, “Hey, I now need an insurance policy.  Thanks for helping me think about it in the right way.” I’ll say, “Okay, here’s some people to talk to.” Or I’ve chosen this software that I want to move forward.  Now I need somebody to implement it for me.  I can send them your way.

Adriana Linares: That’s right.  So, I cut you off and I just want you to finish your thought on you said there are a lot of challenges or there are some typical challenges that you find in a shared office space and you are going to sort of tell us about those.

Jared Correia: Well, yeah, the malpractice thing is one issue.  The other thing is like finding software.  So, I just had a firm that is sort of a professional association, nine attorneys in there.  And they’re like, “Hey, we want case management software, but we want to make sure our finances segregated from each other, and we don’t want people to see each other’s cases.”

Adriana Linares: Well, then you have nine different accounts for nine different firms, I mean, this is it.

Jared Correia: That’s what I said.  And they’re like, “Well, we got like disassociate attorney that helps a few of the Lawyers.” I’m like,” Okay, so like give them access to specific cases using the client portal.” Like, these are easy solutions, but it turns — they would, if this firm hadn’t talked to me, they would have bought like nine licenses, shared licenses to one practice management software and it would have been a nightmare to manage.

So, what I try to do is people is like head off some of these problems before they get started.  And so, I’ve had long-term relationships with something.  Like some consulting clients, I’ve worked with for over fifteen years, believe it or not.  And like, there’s all — I tell people, there’s always issues that come up.  And I try to head off bad ideas at the past.

Adriana Linares: Yeah.  So, for me, my favorite type of attorney to help is a brand-new solo.  And when they call me ahead of time, they’re like, “I’m thinking about leaving my law firm in six months.” I’m like, “Oh, yes.” We start now, and even six months is a little premature.  But what I love is to prevent bad habits from building because it’s very hard.  So, for you, you’re talking more about business practices.  I think that you’re unwinding.  For me, when they get to me, they’re often trying to break a bad habit of, oh, I’ve been keeping my time in Excel and putting my bills out in Excel.

(00:10:08)

That’s a bad habit.  Or not using a practice management program is kind of a bad habit because then they’re like, well, I don’t really think I need it.  So I like that.  What are some other typical issues that you see and address when dealing with operations like this?  And I certainly see a lot of and hear from a lot of attorneys that are in a shared space, or they want to be in a shared space because they like the camaraderie and the collegiality, and maybe they want to also have the freedom to run their practice the way they want.  That example you just gave is great.  Should not have a shared practice management program when you’re running individual firms but yet you want to share some resources.

Jared Correia: Right.  And for like people like us, obviously that’s the answer.  But attorneys who in practice, they don’t know, it’s really hard to stay on top of legal tech stuff.  For most people, I think an alternative arrangement is better than that traditional PA arrangement, which is be in an office share but have your own firm.  And effectively what that means is you’ve got your own technology platforms.  You are sharing information with people in a limited way through those technology platforms.  You’re making sure that your data is confidential, like for example, I cannot print stuff to the shared office printer.  You get a little printer.

Adriana Linares: Right.  Or you’re not on a shared server.

Jared Correia: Yeah, exactly.

Adriana Linares: And even by server, I’m talking about a cloud based like all nine of those attorneys trying to share one drop box, what a disaster that would have been?

Jared Correia: That would be a total disaster.  Yeah.  And then the other thing, too, I think, is like the marketing component of it.  The way the ethics rules are written is if you share space with other attorneys and it’s not clear to the legal consumer that your separate entities, you’re going to be defined as a PA, a Professional Association, anyway.  And you’re going to be liable for each other’s ethics breaches.  So you want to have things like a sign on the door that says, “This is the John Doe Law offices.” You want to make sure that you have a website that indicates, like, you’re your own law firm, that type of thing.  So I think that stuff is really important, too, and people don’t necessarily look at that because law firms aren’t particularly focused on branding even though they should be.

Adriana Linares: Right.  Agreed.  Oh, that’s another very good tip.  Okay.  You got one more for this.

Jared Correia: Logo, word mark, just do it, people.

Adriana Linares: It’s not that hard.

Jared Correia: Right.  I guess in terms of other good tips, I think if you’re in an office share, even if it’s like your own law office, even if you’re solo, I would focus on getting into a space where you can get referrals either from lawyers in complementary practice areas or non-attorneys even which are a great source of referrals that lawyers don’t usually focus on and be thoughtful about that before you choose what kind of arrangement you’re going to have.  And if you are in a position where you’re going to be affiliating in some fashion with other lawyers, you could take a step in the direction of a PA without actually doing that.  You could be of counsel to another firm, for example.  And that makes it easier to send referrals back and forth.  And if you’re like solo, like a new solo, and you are of counsel to a larger firm that can make you look a little bit bigger and it may be easier for legal consumers to buy into you because it doesn’t look like you’re alone.  You got people that you’re working with, but you don’t have like, a formal affiliation, you’re not an associate with that firm.  Now that has some drawbacks as well, potentially, because if you’re doing an of counsel arrangement, you have to do a conflict check across both firms.  So realize that you may be conflicted out of some things that you might want to take, but there are also advantages to that arrangement, too.

Adriana Linares: But don’t you have to do a conflict search anyway even when you aren’t off counsel and you’re in the same firm?  I mean, you could have been at another firm previously and had the same kind of conflict.  So I’m not sure that that is like a huge hurdle.

Jared Correia: It’s not a huge drawback.  I don’t think.  But it is something that exists that lawyers —

Adriana Linares: Yeah.  And you want to mention it.  Can you describe for us a little bit better the of counsel relationship?  Because I think a lot of people hear that and they might see that on business cards.  And I think you sort of roundabout described it but if I had a question that I could ask and it was like, you know, this is a good question for Pete(ph), if you were my Pete, my legal Pete and I said, can you describe the of counsel relationship among lawyers?

Jared Correia: Legal Pete?  I feel like we should get that trademarked.  The way I look at it is probably a non-traditional way to look at it, although it’s one of the ways that people have used it.  So traditionally, like of counsel is like some attorney who’s on the back nine who still wants to do stuff, and they’re like, “Hey, Bill, you’re 97 years old, here’s this office.” And it’s like, oh, Bill has a reputation in the space.  He’s affiliated with our firm.  Now, he may be on his deathbed but he works with us.

Adriana Linares: He does.

Jared Correia: The way I kind of look at this is it’s a good testing ground for doing something more aggressive with the firm in the future.  So, for example, if there were two solos and they we’re like, “Hey, there’s a potential for us to do a partnership here down the line.” But you don’t want to sign a partnership agreement and become partners right away which could be problematic.

(00:15:07)

I think what you want to be doing instead is maybe try the of counsel arrangement first.  Market each other a little bit, refer cases back and forth, look like you’re affiliated in some fashion, and use that as like a stepping stone to see whether there’s a broader relationship ship in play in the firm.

Adriana Linares: And so this is a dumb question but this is not a fake question.  A lot of times I ask fake questions that I know the answer.

Jared Correia: All right.  I’ll be on the lookout for that.

Adriana Linares: In this case, I don’t.  So if you are two solos, can you be of counsel to each other?

Jared Correia: Yeah.  That’s usually how it’s done.

Adriana Linares: Okay.  Because I always think of it as there’s a bigger firm and one attorney who is of counsel to that firm, but if you’re two solos, then you could be each others of counsel.

Jared Correia: Right.  So for the bigger firm, for example, if they’re working with solo attorney, they may be like, “Hey, we’re getting a lot of immigration referrals.” We don’t have an immigration person.  The business line is not big enough to hire somebody yet, but we want somebody dedicated that we can pass referrals to.  That could be enough counsel arrangement.  And for that smaller firm, like, maybe it’s a small, maybe it’s a solo immigration firm that wants to pass general practice referrals on to somebody else and they want to look bigger so their clients feel more comfortable and hiring them.  They’re affiliated with that firm as well.  So I think it’s a really advantageous arrangement.  And I should say like you don’t necessarily have to do it as a test run or a test balloon for a partnership.  The other way to do this is if you just want to have a more solidified referral arrangement, you could do that as well.  And so I should round this out and say, “Technically, if you’re of counsel from one firm to the other, you’re a contractor and you want to have an of counsel agreement in place.” And there’s a great book from the ABA called, “The of Counsel Agreement”, it’s by a guy named Harold Ren.  It’s probably like, the Bible for of counsel agreements.  I think it’s in addition, six or seven right now.

Adriana Linares: I love this idea.

Jared Correia: Me, too.  I’ve been recommending it to people for years.

Adriana Linares: So you’re a solo attorney who maybe left a large firm, and you do contracted work, let’s pick commercial real estate.  It’s hard as a solo to get big companies to hire you because you’re a solo, but yet you have the experience of a big firm.  You’ve got the reputation from having been at a big firm.  So you might approach maybe a mid-sized firm and say, “Oh, I noticed you don’t have a really well known or a high end real estate attorney.” I don’t want to come work for your firm because I like my solar practice but would you consider an of counsel relationship?

Jared Correia: Yeah.  That’s a great way to do it.  I’ve seen a lot of like, a lot of big firm attorneys use this.  They come out.  They don’t have the cradle of the large firm anymore to help with admin and all that stuff.  And the clients that are talking to them are like, “Hey, I like you, you’re great.” But you’re just one dude or one lady like what happens if something goes on with you or you’re busy?  A lot of people say, “Hey, I’m a solo”.  But I got my team here, which, if I’ve got issues, I have all these other people that could work with you, like, I’ve got a really deep bench.  That’s a great way to play it, too.

Adriana Linares: And can you speak just briefly about how the financial arrangement works in an of counsel relationship?  Because I’m sure we’ve piqued some interest and then they’re going to wonder what that looks like.

Jared Correia: I mean, it’s funny.  It’s like almost anything else in legal which is like, if you are sharing fees with an attorney, the top is really off, and you can do whatever you want.  You could have a 5% to 95% breakdown, like, you could really do whatever.

Adriana Linares: Okay.

Jared Correia: Generally, I’m seeing some kind of formalized referral arrangement where it’s like, okay, you get cases into our firm, we’re giving you 20%, you’re taking 80% or vice versa.  And then you got to also look at your jurisdictional requirements for that type of thing, because in some states, like Massachusetts, for example, we have what are called forwarding fees for attorneys.  So as long as I get my clients to sign off on it, I can send somebody a case with almost no nexus to that case and be like, you take care of it but the fee split isn’t determinative based on the amount of work that somebody does.  So I could send that referral over, and I could take 99% of the fee and the other firm could take 1% of the fee if I wanted to set it up that way.  But it’s not like that in every jurisdiction.  Some jurisdictions, it’s based on how much work each individual attorney does.  So look at the referral rules in your jurisdiction first.  So you may have more flexibility or less to set that up, but you would be able to set it up.  I mean, you’ve got a lot of flexibility there.  It’s what somebody else will agree to, frankly.

Adriana Linares: Oh, that’s very good.  Okay.  I want to move on to our next segment because I have two more topics that I want to bring.

Jared Correia: We have two more?

Adriana Linares: Two more.

Jared Correia: All right, let me stretch.  I’m ready.

Adriana Linares: Stretch coming in.  But before we do that, I want to say hello to Ramon.  Now, Ramon approached me at the AVA Talk Show and said, “I listened to your podcast.  I love your podcast,” and I wanted to say hi to him and thank him.

(00:20:03)

It always is really nice and like a weird surprise when people recognize my face because I think they’re going to recognize my voice, which happens often, too.  People they’ll say, you know, your voice sounds so familiar.  But anyway, I want to say hi to Ramon and I also wanted to say hi to Andrew and thank him so much for this really nice long note.  He sent me on LinkedIn and I think, I have not replied to Andrew, but I have showed this note to like two or three people just saying, these are the types of messages that keep me on this podcast.  So Andrew just sent me a nice note that said he’d been listening to New Solo for a long time and launched his law practice and couldn’t have done it without New Solo.

Jared Correia: Amazing.

Adriana Linares: And so, who I want to thank is Andrew for sending me the note, but then it’s really about my guests or my co-hosts, and I want to thank all of them for making New Solo such a great podcast for all these years.  So, thanks, Ramon.  Thanks, Andrew.  It was nice meeting you guys out there.  We are going to be right back with Jared Correia after a few messages from our sponsors.

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Adriana Linares: Okay, we’re back.  I’ve got Jared Correia from Red Cave Consulting here.

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: A peer of mind.  We go way back a million years in the world of legal technology and consulting.

Jared Correia: Dear.  Friends, I would even go so far as to say.

Adriana Linares: Dear friends.  Now.  And Jared, I think you think this is the first time you’ve been on New Solo and I think you might be right, which is–

Jared Correia: I think so.

Adriana Linares: Insulting to you.  I should’ve–.

Jared Correia: No.  Had, sorry.

Adriana Linares: You should be like one of my regulars.

Jared Correia: Don’t sweat.

Adriana Linares: But when we start.  Okay.  I won’t sweat it.  You mentioned two things.  You know when I said introduce yourself, what do you do?  You said, I’ve got these two things you did not mention, Gideon.

Jared Correia: Yeah, I got a software company too, because what the hell?  Why not?

Adriana Linares: Why not?

Jared Correia: Yes.  So we’ve got partner and I, we have a software company and we’ve got some pretty good law firm investors in that as well.  So, basically, it really does three things, so, chat and qualification, chatbot on law firm websites, scheduling, automated scheduling, and then document assembly.  So, it’ll build documents out of chat.  We’re just about to come out with, which will probably be out by the time we’re done with this podcast, proprietary e-signature tool that we built.  So, you can do an e-signature directly in the chat as a legal consumer so you don’t have to channel switch to an email or something like that.

Adriana Linares: Okay.

Jared Correia: And we’re pretty excited about.

Adriana Linares: We have to back this up just a smidge.

Jared Correia: Okay.  Yes.

Adriana Linares: But, yesterday–.

Jared Correia: Let’s tear it apart.

Adriana Linares: Let’s tear it apart.  We’re going to bring it back home.

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: Yesterday, I did a presentation in San Diego and I called it What’s Missing from your Legal Tech Stack?  And I said, okay, so you’ve got the basics already, which is basically what I talked about in the previous episode before this.  And so then I was covering maybe some add-ons and like, here’s the next level.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Adriana Linares: Of building your things.  And one of the things I had on there was website chat and chatbots.  Now, this is not chat GPT, so we’re going to leave that out the conversation.

Jared Correia: Yes.  We’ll we can differentiate that.  Yeah.  This is not chat GPT.  It’s not AI.  It’s not.

Adriana Linares: It’s not AI.  Well, I don’t know.  Maybe in a mini version, it is, but so this–.

Jared Correia: I guess we have some light machine learning, but I wouldn’t call it AI.

Adriana Linares: Okay.  So, I wrote, you know, not I wrote, but in my presentation I said, let’s talk about chat for your websites and a chatbot.  Now they can be different.  So, I have a little chat plugin for the Nebraska Bar, San Diego bar, for the Florida bar, and for my own website.  Now that’s just a plugin that I put on WordPress, which is where I want run my website.  I pay $19 a month for it.  It’s called Formilla is the one that I use.

(00:25:00)

Jared Correia: That’s correct.

Adriana Linares: Very simple.  When I’m sitting here at my desk or for an attorney, the way I think about this is if you’re actually paying a receptionist to sit up front and doesn’t have a lot of things to do, and you want to have a live chat offering on your website where when somebody clicks it and it says, so if you go to one of my websites if I’m online, it says Adriana’s online.  And that legitimately means I am sitting here.

Jared Correia: It’s right.  Right.

Adriana Linares: If it happens–.

Jared Correia: You can talk to me.

Adriana Linares: You can talk to me.  And what’s funny is people will hop in, they’ll be like, Adriana, is that really you?  I’m like, yep, it’s me.  And they go, no, it’s a robot.  I’m like, no, it’s really me.

Jared Correia: That’s so funny.

Adriana Linares: So, I want you to differentiate chat versus than the chatbot, which does question and answer without the actual human there.  Okay.  So, let’s just start with, can you differentiate for us on our websites the difference between a chat and a chatbot.

Jared Correia: Yeah.  So, live chat is probably what you’re referring to as chat, which is a kind of hosted chat.  So, there is a human who’s answering the questions that you input, the comments you make, and that could be a business owner like yourself, or that could be an agent that’s hired by a third party, kind of like virtual receptionist.

Adriana Linares: Yeah, and I was just going to mention–.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Adriana Linares: That, if you have a virtual receptionist like a Ruby, I think Apex.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Adriana Linares: And maybe even Smith, they offer this.

Jared Correia: Yeah, they do.

Adriana Linares: So, if you’re already paying for, I don’t like to call them virtual receptionists because they’re real.  A remote receptionist service —

Jared Correia: I like that.

Adriana Linares: You should find out if they will also run, you know, how much extra is it to put a chat plugin on your website and have people who you’re already paying–

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Adriana Linares: And have already trained by your script to also help you capture leads that are coming in through the website.  Okay.  So, I interrupted you and I’m sorry.

Jared Correia: No.  That no, that’s totally fair.  Yeah.  So, there are these live agents.  So, a lot of people are using this now for customer service.  So, if you need to deal with your phone company or whatever, you can go right to their support page and chat with a live agent.  I think a lot of people–.

Adriana Linares: Which I much prefer over calling.

Jared Correia: Absolutely.  I hate talking to anybody except for you.  And then a chatbot is a little bit different and there’s really two species of them.

Adriana Linares: Wait.  Can I say one more thing about the chat?

Jared Correia: Of course.  It’s your show.

Adriana Linares: It’s our show.  You’re my co-host.  I just want to say, if you’ve thought about this and you think it’s a lot of work, or you’re afraid of it, I think there are a couple of benefits to the chat other than you’re immediately engaging with someone.  You’re capturing information, you’re hopefully building some trust.  But here’s the main thing you’re doing as an attorney.  You’re preventing them from hitting a dead end and moving on to the next law firm that they were going to go seek help from.

Jared Correia: Right.

Adriana Linares: So, if you can capture an engaged potential new client at this moment in time, this is very, very valuable.  So, I love chat for that.  And so now let’s talk about, as you were going to say, the chatbot, which is another level which doesn’t necessarily be, need to be man or woman.  By a human because–

Jared Correia: Yes, this is truly like the virtual option.  So, like there’s two species of that.  Like there are some chatbot providers that have some like AI running behind this.  Like it can make intelligent responses to certain queries.  I don’t think that technology, in most cases is where it needs to be that you can let it run on its own, frankly.  And a chatbot could also be kind of like a scripted conversation with rails around it.

So, I’ll give you an example, somebody comes to the site, you want to get their contact information.  You want to find out which of your practice areas they’re interested in.  You maybe want them to answer a couple of questions about their issue and probably give them an opportunity to say something like, “Hey, here’s my legal need that I want to talk about.” You capture that contact information and the way that we do it, at least not every provider does this is, we can route that conversation based on the information that somebody’s provided to a meeting directly or we can message a person in the firm to kind of say, “Hey, there’s a lead, they’re a hot lead.  You can now refer to that and contact them.” That kind I got a whale.  Yeah.  Exactly.

Adriana Linares: On the line.

Jared Correia: So that’s how most of the chatbots will work.  So, basically the way that works is you build the subscription on the backside in the software, build the script, sorry, on the backside on the software, and then you try to figure out all the pathways that conversation could take and lead them to the end.  If it’s a very basic thing, it’s going to be just what I described, contact information practice area issue.  Thanks for contacting us.  We’ll get somebody to talk to you soon.  That’s basically how it works.

Adriana Linares: But wouldn’t you rather go that extra just step and say, we’ve got someone we can connect you with right now, or why don’t you make an appointment right now?  Again, we’re trying to prevent them from moving on.

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: So, I would go that extra mile, but you know, that’s what I do.

(00:30:00)

Jared Correia: Yes.  So, there’s a couple of different ways to do that.  So, the way that we’ve done it is we’ve built in effectively like our own version of Calendly or Acuity, like scheduling software, but it’s tied to a specific person.  So, based on your qualifications, if you need to talk to an admin person, we hook you up with an admin person.  If you can get a conversation directly with an attorney based on what you respond, you get to book with them automatically.  You don’t have to channel switch.  But as you said, there’s also the opportunity to potentially present a live chat situation.  So, you can have this hybrid kind of live chat thing where that person would get an indication that, okay, there’s somebody in chat right now.  They’ve hit your qualifiers.  Now, you can come in and talk to them if you want to and try to book them.  So, there’s a number of different ways to do this, but you’re right.  It’s about engagement, getting people to make the quick decision before they bounce and go to the next website, which they will do.

Adriana Linares: And so, with my little cheap, I call it Do It Yourself (DIY) chat formula.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Adriana Linares: I have it set up.  So, when the chat comes in, like, literally a confetti falls out of the sky above me.  I’ve got my watch goes off, my phone goes off, things start ringing and dinging.  So, my question to you is going to be, if this happens and all of a sudden we got a whale on the line, how do I know?

Jared Correia: Yeah, so like the notifications are one way to do that.

Adriana Linares: Same thing.

Jared Correia: You can get it via email, you get it via text, and then if you have the ability to hop in and take over that conversation, you can do that.

Adriana Linares: You can.  Yeah.

Jared Correia: But if you are in a position where you’re actually not available at that time, let’s say, you’re doing a presentation or something like that, you could have the system opt to, hey, this person has hit the qualifications.  Now, they get to schedule an appointment with me at a later time, which means that I don’t have to book them and that meeting is just on my calendar.  And they’ve never had to do anything other than start conversing with this chat.  Now, they’ve got the appointment booked, which makes it less likely that they’re going to book another appointment with a firm, or even if they do, you’ve at least got them calendared, whereas another firm, they may not have the opportunity to do that and they never take that next step.

Adriana Linares: And they probably don’t, because a lot of firms, I feel, are not doing this yet because attorneys are like, “I can’t have just anyone hopping on my calendar.”

Jared Correia: I know.  They still don’t get it.

Adriana Linares: So, I just want to describe for listeners about — so, it’s at gideonlegal.com.

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: And when you go here, it will say, “Intake scheduling and document assembly software for law firms.”  With Gideon’s suite of tools, law firms can convert leads, which is what we just talked about schedule appointments, also we just talked about.  Capture data, cover that populate information into custom documents and automated/manual processes.  All from a single secure platform.  And then, you’ve got a couple of examples here where there’s a fake chat going on.  So, I just want to, again, just sort of illustrate this more for listeners that says, “Got it.  And is your household income above $28,290?”  So, it’s very exact.  And this is one of the qualifiers you’re talking about where you’re programming the chat to ask very specific questions that meet a very specific intake or qualifier process.  So, then the response is no.  So, that’s the very first question, at least in this example.  And the respondent says no.  And then the bot — I guess it’s a bot on this one because it’s powerful.

Jared Correia: It is.

Adriana Linares: It says, “What is your legal situation?”  Now, that’s really broad, but the writer —

Jared Correia: I’ve got lots of stuff to say on this.

Adriana Linares: Okay, good.  The respondent says, “I have been evicted”.  Oh, no.  These are choices.  “I have been evicted.”  I have a problem with something I bought.”  I’ve been discriminated against.”  Okay.  So now, that we sort of have a visual of what this would look like on our website, what are the things you want —

Jared Correia: I have many thoughts and feelings on this.  I’ve actually designed some of these scripts and I’m pretty happy with the results, because with the chat, including like long term conversations, like some of the stuff we design is for firms that do a bulk estate planning practice.  So, you get like 300 people building out wills every month.  So, we try to make it very consumer-friendly and we get something like 90 to 95% conversion rate on those.

Adriana Linares: Wow.

Jared Correia: Which is like, you do the whole chat and then the document spits out at the end.  And the fact that people are willing to hang on for that long and answer the questions I think is good.  So, I have a strategy for this.  When I talk to law firms, I say, “Okay.  Let’s at some point in the first, like three or four questions, ask somebody what their legal situation is.”  I almost don’t care what it is, but it gives them an opportunity to be like, “Okay, I can now say my piece because this is really a thorn in my side and someone’s going to listen to me”, even if it’s like an online robot.  Like, they love that.  And then they’re invested, and then they start answering questions.  And when we do the document builds like estate planning.  Let’s take that example.  What I’ll often do is be like, “Okay.  We’re going to ask you questions about your children now.  And if you’re engaging with something online, you’re not going to be like, “Oh, here, web robot.”

Adriana Linares: Let me show you a picture of our new grandson.

(00:34:58)

Jared Correia: So, we do things like “This is why we need information about your children for the will”, or “This is why we need a guardian so you should –”

Adriana Linares: So, you’re educating them as they’re filling it out at the same time?

Jared Correia: Ideally, like, there’s a significant educational component to make somebody feel comfortable to the extent that they almost forget they’re not talking to a person, and it becomes a back and forth conversation to the extent, because you still got to put rails around it, right?  You want people to make multiple choice questions and answer those.  You want people to submit text information, and what goes on in the background, which is common with all these chatbots, is every time somebody provides a specific answer, there’s a label.  For example, if it was an estate planning firm, you have the label that says, “Okay.  This person makes over $30,000 a year.”  “This person owns their own home.”  And then depending on what answers they make, they go down a certain path.  Some firm may say, “Okay.  This person just needs I love you, wills.  So, we can send them down the path where we’re going to create that will right now, or if somebody’s like, “Hey, I have $2 million in assets.  A firm might want to bump them out of that process and be like, “Hey, schedule an appointment right now because you need a higher level of estate planning and talk to somebody on our team, that kind of thing.  So, it gives you that level of flexibility.  And then for us, we’re also collecting fields so we can input them into documents, and then we’re also making people go down certain pathways so we can add or remove clauses from documents.

Adriana Linares: And so, I just want to say, the dream that you are describing is that data is being captured for the first time, accurately being input by the potential new client.  And if they become a client, no one ever has to enter that information again, and you can move this matter from cradle, which is where we are now, to grave, I hate to use that term in estate planning terms, but, hey, it works.

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: And it’s all there.  And you’re able to just reuse that data over-and-over again.  That is the legal dream of data.

Jared Correia: Absolutely.  And I think that’s a great point to make because ideally, what we want to do is remove the staff list from that.  And I think that’s true of everybody, this document assembly.  So, we’ve worked with some firms where — I mean, they’ve been able to reduce their staffing costs significantly, like into the hundreds of thousands of dollars based on the volume, just because the clients are now inputting the stuff.  And they’re in putting it in a way that they feel like they’re invested in a process and they like doing it.

Adriana Linares: I want to say this too.  I don’t want it to sound like we’re getting rid of humans in the legal profession.

Jared Correia: Humans are still necessary.

Adriana Linares: They’re necessary to a certain degree, but they’re also getting rid of themselves at a certain level because, Jared, I think do you have a daughter?

Jared Correia: Yes, I do.

Adriana Linares: Are you encouraging your daughter to become a legal secretary when she grows up?

Jared Correia: No.  Equestrian.

Adriana Linares: No.  So, that’s what I mean.  Way better?

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: An equestrian is way better.  So, my point is, it’s harder for attorneys to find — the days of having a legal assistant that’s been there for 20 years and could train the baby lawyers, forget about them.

Jared Correia: That’s an excellent point, yeah.

Adriana Linares: Long gone.  So, what we’re doing is making it so that your need for administrative staff is less, and the people that you do have, the humans that you do have working for you, are actually doing work that requires their brain, and you’re paying them to use their brain for more useful purposes than capturing data.  So, that’s what I mean by, we’re not trying to get rid of humans in the profession.  The profession is taking care of it itself.

Jared Correia: You’re upskilling them rather than having to remote data input constantly, which is the most boring thing you can do.

Adriana Linares: Well, I’m glad we got to talk about Gideon, and you got to help us understand.

Jared Correia: Yeah, thank you.

Adriana Linares: Can I ask you one last question?  I almost forgot and I always ask this.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Adriana Linares: Can you tell us about pricing?

Jared Correia: Oh, yeah.  So basically, we got two models which you can unify.  So, it’s $150 a month for the chat, and then it’s $150 a month for the document assembly as well if you want to add that.  With the new e-signature tool, we’re working with some larger mass tort firms who were signing up like thousands of people a month.

Adriana Linares: Wow.

Jared Correia: So, we’re doing a per signature price, which I think we’re going to set, like, $25 a signature.

Adriana Linares: With all this work you have, you must be recording live from your mansion in Bimini.

Jared Correia: No, I’m recording live from my home in Northern Massachusetts.

Adriana Linares: Your kitchen in Massachusetts.

Jared Correia: My kitchen, yes.  I have some Oreos that I bought.  So, after this, I will be indulging in a sleeve of Oreos.  Yeah.  It’s a really amazing lifestyle, honestly.

Adriana Linares: No, I love it.  I think it’s great.  So, everybody, go check out gideonlegal.com.  Of course, if you have any questions or just want to learn more, you can schedule a demo right there or I know, Jared is very generous with his time (00:40:01) question.

(00:40:01)

Jared Correia: I am.  I am.

Adriana Linares: When we come back from our next break, we’re going to talk about Pete.

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: ChatGPT which today is, I don’t know, it’s the end of March and in the past two weeks, this thing has come out of nowhere and we’re all losing our minds.

Jared Correia: Oh my God.  Yes.

Adriana Linares: So we’ll be right back to talk about that after some messages from some sponsors.

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Adriana Linares: So in our last segment, we talked about chat and chatbots and so now, the big elephant in the server room, as I jokingly said yesterday during my presentation for the San Diego County Bar is ChatGPT.

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: And I’m glad you told me that you did a presentation on this recently because I want to talk about it because I think we’re all hearing about it, but I don’t want to overwhelm listeners with like all the Legal Talking heads from Twitter and LinkedIn and everything and how’s ChatGPT going to change the legal world.  I just want to talk about it from a basic angle and get us thinking about how helpful it can really be.  So Jared, ChatGPT is an actual AI model versus what we were talking about earlier.  Give us the basics.  A lawyer calls you today and they’re like, “I keep hearing about this ChatGPT, but they want my cellphone number before I can try it.  Should I do it?”

Jared Correia: Well, that’s a kind of loaded question.  Should you do it?  Yeah, you should test it.

Adriana Linares: Oh boy.

Jared Correia: But like you don’t want to use it —

Adriana Linares: It’s free.

Jared Correia: — you don’t want to rely on it in your practice just.

Adriana Linares: No.

Jared Correia: Yeah.  So the way I kind of look at — so let me tell you what it is first.  So it’s called like Generative AI and what that effectively means is that you provide inputs and it provides outputs.  So, very basic example, like you can say, “Hey, ChatGPT, I’m building a pricing model for my law firm.  My practice area is X, I have this much years of experience, please build out a pricing model for me.” So it has some data.  And then you can say things like, “Okay, put that in a table so I have a better idea of what this looks like”, that kind of thing.  So it’s great for building content and I have to say briefly that I got in a lot of trouble this morning before I got on the podcast because my son was late for school because we were using ChatGPT prompt —

Adriana Linares: Pete.  I call them “Pete”.

Jared Correia: — yeah, Pete prompts to build out a paper that my son was writing for school and my wife got very mad at me.  And I was like, “Hey, if he can use this as an assistive technology, it’d be foolish not to.”  Right?  She did not agree.

Adriana Linares: Well, look, I’m with you, but let’s take your example and back it up.  If you’re an attorney looking for a pricing model on Google, you’re going to input a search, search terms and Google is going to return a bunch of results that it thinks are relevant to your question.  But basically what Google is doing is sending you on a research project because now you’ve got to click through those links, you’ve got to extract the information that you want.  You’re basically building the project yourself from all the resources that Google is giving you.  While on the other hand, Pete actually gives it to you.

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: He or she, it is like you —

Jared Correia: You cuss out that entire process.

Adriana Linares: Yeah.  You don’t have to do this research anymore.  You don’t need to go looking and hunting for all this data.  I’m just going to give you the answer.  It’s like asking an experienced qualified human, like calling up Jared and saying, “What should my pricing model look like?” Jared’s not going to say, “Well, go research these answers, these responses.  There was a white paper that Reuters put out.  The ABA has got a book.” Jared’s going to give you the answer and that’s what —

Jared Correia: I just have better jokes on Pete but go ahead.

Adriana Linares: Way better jokes.  Okay, so go on because you are sort of describing and I want to also encourage listeners.  The keywords that you’re going to hear about with Pete is you’re prompting it.  You’re not putting terms into a search box, you’re prompting it for answers and it learns from your continuing prompts sort of like when you’re talking to Jared, I would say, “So, Jared, okay, so I see this pricing model here.  Can you give me an example of how I would apply this if I was in a multidisciplinary practice?” And it then hones the answer, adds more based on that.  Okay, so keep going.

Jared Correia: Yeah.  The prompts are key and that you want to give it enough information about your circumstances to provide as specific response as you can, so not a generic response.

(00:45:01)

So putting in like I’m an attorney who has this level of experience.  I’m an attorney who is based in this jurisdiction.  It’s not going to know that stuff automatically, but that helps to provide a content.  And then it’s really funny because you can talk to Pete like you would talk to Pete a human.

Adriana Linares: I know.

Jared Correia: So you can say, “Do this next.  Do that”.  Like this morning when I got on, when I was on my son, I was like, “Hey, good morning, Pete.”  Right?  And it’s like, “Oh, good morning.  I hope you’re having a pleasant day.”  So, ideally you kind of lose yourself in the uncanny valley a little bit.  And I tell people like, imagine like it’s not necessarily like a legal assistant in the sense that they have this innate knowledge of how legal works.  If you’re working in the system for like five years, it’s different type of thing.  The way I kind of view it is like, if you have kids, it’s like talking to your kids.

Adriana Linares: Right.

Jared Correia: You have to be very specific, you have to be very literal and then it can provide decent responses.

Adriana Linares: And you know, we should warn everyone too.  It tells you in the very beginning once you sign out that says, “My answers might not be correct.  I don’t have information prior to 2020”, but it’s also at this point having indexed and digested billions of resources, and what it’s doing is sort of predicting what the next word should be.  You can watch it build the answer.  The thing is amazing.

Jared Correia: It was like a learning model, right?

Adriana Linares: Yeah.

Jared Correia: So just as you learn things when you were young — I heard a great example like Mark Palmer.  You probably know, he’s the Ethics Counsel in Illinois.  I was talking to him the other day and he’s like, “Yeah, ChatGPT is like a teenager” right?

Adriana Linares: Right.

Jared Correia: They have a lot of promise, but they’re not necessarily super-sophisticated yet.  So you want to take that analogy and run with it and that anything that ChatGPT produces, you need to look at it in the same way that you would look at t or that an associate attorney would produce or Ambien person would produce.

Adriana Linares: Right.

Jared Correia: You have to be like really on top of that.

Adriana Linares: So and I’m not suggesting that we use it for legal work, but I am going to give you an example of some questions that the attorney I live with and I gave it, which I think was really impressive.  I’ve been using it for things like help me craft a social media post.  I’m looking for three useful things to know about this.

Jared Correia: Right.

Adriana Linares: So that’s why I would love for everyone to just try it, but I don’t want you to go at it like, “Oh, is this thing going to replace lawyers?”  No, it’s not, although it passed a bar exam.

Jared Correia: Yes, right.

Adriana Linares: So in the earlier version of ChatGPT, it failed the bar exam.  I think it got like in the 21 percentile, that was, I don’t know, maybe two years ago, and since then, they’ve bombarded it with information and it recently passed a bar exam at 91% — in the 91 percentile.  Think about that.

Jared Correia: Yeah, which is wild, because I sure as hell couldn’t pass the bar exam at such percentage.

Adriana Linares: I mean, it’s actually kind of — and when you listen to — if you go listen to some podcast interviews or some interviews with Sam Altman who’s the CEO, it’s really interesting.  So, no, look, we need to know about this and you should go out and try it, but here’s the question we prompted Pete.

Jared Correia: No, well played.

Adriana Linares: My attorney and I, my favorite attorney on the planet, he said, “Ask it this.  How do I explain a right of first offer in a lease?”  So that was my question.  And I won’t read the whole thing because you can go do it —

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Adriana Linares: — yourself but basically, it writes in plain English.  A right of first offer (rofo) is a clause in a lease agreement that grants a tenant the right to be the first party to receive an offer to lease or purchase a property from the landlord before it is offered to any other party.

Jared Correia: Yeah.

Adriana Linares: Done.  And now it actually goes on, there’s three or four more paragraphs after that, which I won’t read to you because you all can do the search yourself, but then he said, “That’s pretty good”.  He goes, “Type this in there” or maybe he typed it himself.  Can you give me — now, this is the scary part.  “Give me a sample landlord-friendly indemnification provision for a lease.”  Get ready for this, guys.

Jared Correia: I’m ready.  I’m very excited right now.

Adriana Linares: He says, “Certainly, here’s a sample landlord-friendly indemnification provision for a lease.”  Now, in quotes, “Tenant shall indemnify defendant hold harmless landlord and his agents, employees and representatives from and against any and all claims, damages, liabilities, costs and expenses (including responsible attorney fees and court costs arising out of or related to any breach) and I wish this is the part where we would speed up my –” you know, and I could read the whole thing.  But anyway, it goes on and it finishes the quote and then it says, “it’s important to note that the language used in an indemnification provision can have significant legal implications so it’s important to consult with an attorney.”

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: So ensure that the provision is properly drafted and enforceable in your specific jurisdiction.  Like it’s telling the person who’s doing research.

Jared Correia: Not a bad disclaimer, right?

Adriana Linares: Yeah.

Jared Correia: Yes, it’s really funny.  But this — yeah, I mean, that’s a great example.

(00:50:00)

And if I’m an attorney, I especially like a Corporate Attorney or a Leasing Attorney, I’m a little bit worried that like my legal consumers that are now hiring me are going to use ChatGPT and be like, “Build me this contract and cut out the attorney.”

Adriana Linares: I’ve drafted it, could you just make it better?

Jared Correia: Exactly, yeah, so that’s going to cut into lawyers’ work too.  Yes, I think it’s a super-interesting technology to be free.

Adriana Linares: I love it.

Jared Correia: But I also think it has applications for lawyers obviously like that example you gave is AI is an assistive technology.  I think a lot of attorneys out there are like, “Hey, AI is going to take my job.”  But not really like you’re using these tools to help you to do a better job and really to streamline your process.  I would never take something off a ChatGPT at this point in time and slap it on to a document to send to my client, but based on just the prompt you gave, the information it provided, you could use that to build out a document, you do research.

Adriana Linares: I think that the example I gave to the attorneys yesterday was for certain things, it’s going give you a starting.  It just gives you the starting point and then from there your creativity and your legal knowledge and your experience, depending on how much you have, is going to take over and you’re going to then take what it gives you and apply your legal analysis to it and do your lawyer thing.  But then I also think there’s a lot of uses were outside of the practice of law —

Jared Correia: Oh, for sure.

Adriana Linares: — for all of us as humans running small businesses, doing research with our kids, and that’s why I think everyone should create an account and go check it out because it has a lot of really interesting uses.

Jared Correia: It’s funny like my daughter’s always cooking stuff up, like from random stuff around the house and she’s like, “Hey, I’ve got an egg, some chili sauce, and like beans.  What can I make with it?”  And I’m like, “I don’t know.  I’m not Paula Deen.”  But now I can go to like ChatGPT and be like, “Hey, give me a recipe for that.”  She can actually follow.

Adriana Linares: Isn’t that cool?

Jared Correia: Because I could tell ChatGPT, write this up as if a five-year-old is making this recipe.  If you’re an attorney and you’re not at least experimenting with it, you should be and I’m not saying like write Legal Briefs on it because there’s nobody knows really what the IP situation’s going to look like here.  But like, yeah, writing web content, like just get us a turning point.

Adriana Linares: All day.  So, for those of you who have a web developer, and the web developer won’t write your content for you, and that’s always the hold-up in developing a lawyer’s website, is waiting for the lawyer to write the content, go to ChatGPT.  And is it going to sound like every other law firm’s website content?  Yes.  But even if you pay somebody to professionally write that, it’s still going to sound like every lawyer’s website on the planet, so at least it gives you a starting point and from there you can put your voice into it and write the spin.

Jared Correia: Well, it’s funny that you mentioned that because I had a friend of mine who just launched a consulting business and he wrote his entire website on ChatGPT.

Adriana Linares: Amazing.

Jared Correia: Sitemap and everything, yeah.

Adriana Linares: Guys, you have to check this out and then I want you to send me messages and tell me what you thought or if you sent it an interesting prompt.  And I think it would be interesting to have a conversation which a lot of the talking heads on legal have done this with the issues in using it for legal purposes —

Jared Correia: Yes

Adriana Linares: — and some of the things that got wrong.  I think Bob Ambrosio did a piece on.  It wrote a brief that sounded great, but it was not correct or it wasn’t accurate but the thing is that’s what it does.  It makes you want to believe that it gave you the right answer.

Jared Correia: And it generates false citations too.  So, if it feels like a citation should be in place somewhere, it will just make up case law.

Adriana Linares: It’s amazing.

Jared Correia: So, you got to be really careful about that.

Adriana Linares: Yeah, but this is where we said take the content and run with it.

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: Don’t copy and paste it.

Jared Correia: Yes.

Adriana Linares: Well, Jared, this has been a lot of fun.

Jared Correia: I had a lot of fun.  This is great.

Adriana Linares: I appreciate you coming on.  It’s always —

Jared Correia: Thanks for having me.

Adriana Linares: — well, always a pleasure and I’m sorry it’s taking me this long, but I’ll put you on the site.

Jared Correia: That’s all right.

Adriana Linares: The rotation with some of the regulars.  We got all kinds of stuff we could always talk about.

Jared Correia: Let’s do it.  I love it.

Adriana Linares: Tell everybody where they can find, friend or follow you one last time before I let you go.

Jared Correia: Oh, yeah.  So redcavelegal.com is my consulting website, and gideonlegal.com is my software website.  Now, if you can spell my last name, put it into the Google machine, and you’ll find a bunch of stuff.

Adriana Linares: And your podcasts.

Jared Correia: Oh yeah, Legal Talk Network.  I’ve got the Legal Toolkit, and then we’ve got the Non-Eventcast with Above the Law.

Adriana Linares: Can you tell me what the Legal Toolkit covers?

Jared Correia: It’s hard to describe.

Adriana Linares: Okay.

Jared Correia: We changed the format recently.  It used to be like an interview show, but we just now designed like a late-night variety show.  So, I do a monologue, I interview a guest, and then we do kind of a sketcher trivia contest at the end and it could literally cover anything.  Sometimes I do legal stuff, sometimes I do pop culture stuff.  Last episode I was talking about “The Last of Us” on HBO and then the next episode I’m talking about like Law Firm Pricing.

Adriana Linares: I love it.

Jared Correia: It’s like the popery category —

Adriana Linares: A variety show.

Jared Correia: — in jeopardy, yes.

Adriana Linares: That’s awesome.  Well, thank you so much, Jared.  I totally appreciate your time.

Jared Correia: Thank you.

Adriana Linares: And thanks everyone for listening to another episode of New Solo.  If you have any ideas for future topics, if you want to give us a five-star rating on Apple Podcast, that would be awesome.

(00:55:02)

You can always send an email to me at [email protected], but of course, you can find me on LinkedIn and Twitter.  I just really appreciate everyone who listens, who sends me nice notes and stops me in line at the buffet, tell me, you like my podcast.

So, thanks everyone and we’ll see you next time on New Solo.

[Music]

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