Guest Ana “Ani” P. Rodriguez-Newbern is a “do-gooder,” a Florida lawyer dedicated to service both to the state of Florida and to the public good. She serves on multiple legal committees while her small family firm, Tangel-Rodriguez & Associates, represents the Florida Department of Revenue in child support matters. She shares how working with both her mother and brother blends every aspect of professional and family life. (Not to mention, her father is a retired judge).
Rodriguez-Newbern’s firm has only one client, the State of Florida, through a contract for the past 30 years. The firm specializes in child support cases in Orange County, Florida, working for the state on behalf of residents receiving public assistance. The state contract makes up the firm’s entire book of business.
Interested in a government contract? Both city and state websites are a good place to look, as well as networking to learn when contracts may be coming up.
Got questions or ideas about solo and small practices? Hit us up at [email protected]
- Learn about how a small, family, firm has prospered for 30 years with just one client: the State of Florida.
- Working in a firm with family members can be a challenge, but it can be rewarding as well. Family and professional life blend into one.
- Small, niche firms can always find ways to integrate technology, even if that’s at a careful, slow pace.
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Adriana Linares: Before we get started, I want to make sure to thank our sponsors, Clio, Nota and Lawclerk.
Intro: New approach, new tools, new mindset, New Solo.
Adriana Linares: Welcome to another episode of New Solo on the Legal Talk Network. My name is Adriana Linares. I am your host, and I’m pretty excited to start today’s recording with a question, a pop quiz for my guest, Ani Rodriguez-Newbern. Ani, this is going to be A, B or C or D. Sangiovese is a star grape variety and wines from: (a) Herman, Missouri; (b) Madrid, Spain; (c) Tuscany, Italy; or, (d) Alsace, France?
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Ooh, I’m so glad you asked me about this because this might have been — I learned this on probably my most favorite vacations ever. My husband and I decided on a whim that we were going to go to Tuscany, Italy, and we learned all about it there. So, we learned about this grape, and now, I don’t know if I’m allowed to say I’m addicted, but it’s definitely a go-to in the store. So, yes, I will go with I think it was letter c.
Adriana Linares: Ding, ding ding, ding. The correct answer is Tuscany, Italy. Sangiovese is the main grape in Tuscan red wines such as Chianti and Vino Nobile di Montepulciano. It often makes a good food wine due to its right acidity.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Oh, it’s so good.
Adriana Linares: Thank you for indulging me and my wine studies. I am taking a wine course here in New Orleans and it’s just been kind of fun to learn about all the different wines. So, thank you, Ani, and I’m glad you got that question right. I left you an easy one. I figured you’re a wine connoisseur. Well, now I should take a minute and let you introduce yourself. Please tell everybody a little bit about yourself because you’re not just a wine connoisseur, you’re a lawyer.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Well, thank you, Adriana, and thank you for having me. I am an attorney with Tangel-Rodriguez & Associates. Tangel-Rodriguez is actually my mom. Ana Tangel-Rodriguez has had this firm for 30-plus years now, and I’m honored to get to work with her. I worked with her for 10 years and we’re a part of a really small practice. We’ve got four attorneys doing child support enforcement on behalf of the State of Florida, exclusively in Orange County. So, we get to operate like a small firm and that’s awesome. So, yeah, that’s a little bit about me. The non-lawyer stuff, you already heard that I’m married, but we have two rescue dogs named Chewy and Solo. And yeah, I’m born and raised in Orlando.
Adriana Linares: And your mother, obviously an attorney. Was your dad an attorney?
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: So, my parents met at UCF. My mom was born in Argentina, in Buenos Aires. And my dad was born in Cuba. They met at UCF. My dad went off to law school at Florida State and my mom said, “Hey, if he can do it, I can do it, too.” And they both went there. So, my mom clearly a practicing attorney and my dad is a retired judge. He was the first Hispanic judge on the Orange County bench in 1986, 1993, he was appointed to the Circuit bench, and 2018, he retired. And that was the same year that I was president of the Hispanic Bar Association of Southern Florida.
Adriana Linares: Oh.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Yeah, so, it was really cool. I got to be the one to do all of the roasting, I mean, ceremonial retirement stuff for him. It was not planned that way, but it was certainly a lot of fun. So, yeah, I guess it’s all in the family when my little brother decided he was going to go to law school, too.
Adriana Linares: Wow.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Yeah, a family of lawyers.
Adriana Linares: That’s amazing. I’m going to come back and ask you about your bar work in a second. Before I do that, I have two questions for you. [Foreign Language].
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Ooh, [Foreign Language]. So, for our non-Spanish speakers, the Argentines speak Spanish almost like Italians and the Cu –
Adriana Linares: Like Uruguajos.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Ah, oh, bet it on. Cubans, I like to say, I like to say Cubans speak Spanish like, you know, like they have a potato in their mouth. It was like [Foreign Language]. So, my family likes to say that I sound confused half the time. So, just depends on the day I guess.
Adriana Linares: Well, that’s funny because my Spanish probably — that’s what people should say about me. So, my family is from Uruguay and for our listeners, Uruguay and Argentina have a love/hate thing, mostly love; hate, only on the soccer fields, so.
Okay, sorry. Enough about the cultural crisscross, but I love it. Let’s go back to you. So, your brother practice with you as well. Your dad is retired, was a judge. And I wanted to ask you just real quick, because I do always like to mention this, especially when we have newer and younger attorneys. The importance of your bar involvement. You mentioned the Hispanic Bar and when we were in the green room, as I like to call it, you talked about being involved with the Orange County Bar Association, which is the big bar in Orange County, Florida, and how has that helped you or been important to you? Because that’s also where I met you just a couple of months at the Voluntary Bar Leaders Conference. You were there on behalf of the OCBA.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Yeah, so, actually I — because of all of my involvement, the Florida Bar now, I was appointed to serve on the committee that puts together the conference. It’s been just a love – I love service. It’s something that my parents have instilled in both of us kids and I find that, for me, it’s a way to learn new skills in a safe environment. So, I don’t have cases or money at stake or business at stake, and I’m able to flush out these ideas with like-minded or are not even — not people that necessarily agree on topics together, but that want to do better for our community or want to be better at what we do, so whether that’s being a litigator or being someone who is doing research and the writing in the background. It’s exposed me to those people. And then, I’m actually better at moving my cases to fruition. So, for me, the most important part about bar service, or two things really, one is service to the community to make the community better, but also to sharpen my skills and to make my understanding of those of us in what people call the system, you know, how we can best work together. Because I find that if I’ve been serving on a committee with you and we’re working to do something good with a common goal, the next time you’re across from me and you’re my opposing counsel or you’re the judge in a case, you’re going to not just trust me a little bit more, but you’re going to know how my brain works. I’m going to know how your brain works and suddenly, we have what could have been an hour-long trial resolved in 15 minutes, and everybody wins. Maybe I don’t actually win my case, but at least the resolution for the parties is better. So, I give back to make myself better and to make the community better.
Adriana Linares: And what’s interesting and so believable about what you’re saying is you have an interesting area of practice where you’re not out there networking to try and get new clients or get referrals. We’ll talk about that in the next segment, but I think that’s really interesting because a lot of people will say everything that you’ve said, which is certainly true and the main reason to volunteer and be of service, but they’ll also often say, plus it’s a great way to network, meet other attorneys and get referrals and also find people that I can refer out. And yours is strictly just because you’re a do-gooder Ani.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: But, it’s a lot about that practice, too.
Adriana Linares: Well, all the ancillary things that you mentioned, like just getting to know each other and being able to have a smarter relationship, if you are on opposing sides of the case is really poignant as well. So, I like that a lot.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: And public speaking in general. There are very few people that come out, you know, out the womb just ready to do it to speak in public. So, just getting in front of a room of ten people on a board and presenting an idea and practicing that skill of getting, you know, stakeholders and getting people on your side, and taking criticism, you know, those are things that are hard that we get to experience and really process when we’re on different boards and different committees. So, I would say that, too. The mentorship is just amazing. Being able to network with older attorneys and younger attorneys and get new ideas that we can innovate in our office or make our practices better, you know, those are things that you get for free when you serve the bar, when you work in those committees. It’s my favorite F word, free. So, that’s why I do it. That’s definitely why I do it.
Adriana Linares: That’s very good. Tell me a little bit about the dynamics in the office, working with your mom and your brother. And how do you all manage? And then, when you go out to dinner, is it all you talked about or at that point, or are you like, “ugh, enough about work”? You know, “How are the dogs?”, “Where are we going on vacation next?”
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Well, so, my mom and I have been working together for the last almost 10 years, and my brother came on board a year ago. My brother worked at the public defender’s office and then at a couple other law firms in town before deciding to come over and work with us. And so, I think working with just one family member and then adding from there cut a lot of the potential drama. My dad and I are a lot alike and no one listening to this is allowed to tell him that, but we are, and my parents have had 40-plus years of being married.
So, I’ve been able to watch the two of them duke it out and having that legal expertise, and knowing ourselves enough to be able to sit down and have those tough conversations and say, “Look, I know how a good disagreement looks like between my parents.” Now, I’m going to step into that role, and we’re going to duke it out, and we’re not going to leave without some sort of agreement, even if it’s an agreement to think about it, and come back in a week. If we think about it and come back in a week, we’re totally fine. And I’m not going to say that it — or paint a rosy picture because it really was a lot of hard work to get to a place where we could really actively work together.
Then my brother came on and I will shout it from the mountaintops and my brother and my mother are almost the same person. They will —
Adriana Linares: Oh, my god.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: They will totally disagree with me, but I promise you, and so — That is exactly how we work. And so knowing that, again, knowing ourselves and knowing how to be better arguers has allowed us to really navigate some sensitive business moves. We also have our own cases, so we come together and say, “Hey how do we this?” Or how would you do that and take it that extra step of brainstorming together. As far as outside of work is concerned, it spills over no matter what we do. My poor husband is not a lawyer but he knows all the players. And so when we talk about things but he’s kind of in on it, but we try to stay away from it as much as possible. We have those stories like every other attorney out there has those stories about those crazy clients. So a lot of times those are the stories that we tell and it’s — you know, “You can’t believe this is what happened today. I have this person who showed up from the bathroom on virtual court.” So, we share a lot of those and definitely last but not least, especially with my dad being a retired judge, a lot of conversations since my brother went to law school, at the dinner table, the Thanksgiving table. If someone gets out of line, there’s always an objection that’s placed on the record, always.
Adriana Linares: Certainly.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Always, objection, non-responsive to the question, objection, that’s not in evidence. So, we do have some creative fun and those non-lawyers in the family are good sports and really enjoy, I guess the legal shows out there. So they have fun with it too.
Adriana Linares: Right. It’s like living in one, basically. Well, that sounds great. Before we move on to our next segment, I come back and ask you about that unique and interesting practice of law that you all have. We are going to take a quick break and listen to some messages from sponsors.
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Adriana Linares: All right, we’re back. I’m here with Ani Rodriguez-Newbern. I’m going to ask her about very cool practice after I ask her the following question. Any true or false, Pinot Gris is commonly grown in Italy.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: This is a tough one.
Adriana Linares: I’ll give you a hint. It’s also known as Pinot Grigio.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: I’m going to go with true.
Adriana Linares: Well, it’s the same grape. I know this from my studies. Grigio is how they say in Italy, gris is how they say it in France. So, this great variety ranges in style from light and crisp to rich and spicy. Its richer version can be an excellent match for Thai cuisine. If anybody’s having Thai tonight, I suggest a Pinot Gris or Pinot Grigio with your meal.
Ani, your mom, you told me this earlier, so we’re going to give credit what the creditors do, had your law firm first, you joined her later, and she had somehow — and this is what I really want you to talk to us about and inspire lawyers out there that there are contracts available. Is it a contract? Is that what you will call it?
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: It is, yes.
Adriana Linares: With the State of Florida?
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Yeah.
Adriana Linares: Okay, tell us how this works.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: So, my mom has not paid me to say this, I promise. I get nothing in return for saying how awesome she is. So she left the State Attorney’s Office to start her own law firm with another friend in the 80s, back before daycare, all that stuff. So she navigated some crazy issues, for another podcast for another time, I’m sure. But she and another attorney in town put in a bid for this contract, and it renews every five to six years. So, the state has an opportunity to go with another law firm, but our firm has had it for over the past, I’d say 30 years now.
Adriana Linares: Wow.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: There are so many other contracts out there — so many other contracts out there for business. We are considered a legal service provider for the State of Florida. We receive referrals of different cases that we will litigate, will file motions, petitions, whatever needs to be done to support the child support enforcement programs.
So, there are four types of cases that we that we handle. If someone is on Medicaid, food stamps, cash assistance or if someone asks for Legal Services, the state will send us those cases pursuant to our contract. And then we will establish child support, modify child support or enforce child support. So, there are three big buckets but there’s a million different ways that we do all of those things. It’s a lot of work, a lot of cases that we manage. A pretty tight ship. We’re pretty efficient here with about 6 to 10 people in our office at anyone given time, but that contract is huge. It’s our entire business right now because we have so many cases.
Adriana Linares: Two thoughts. First, 30 years and I have to renew every five or six — congratulations, you all must be doing a really good job.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: She’s awesome.
Adriana Linares: Yeah. And my second thought is, “Congratulations. That’s amazing.” But also how sad that you’re so busy with this type of work; “Come on humans, be better.”
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Right, right. And so, we just have the contract for Orange County. Most of the counties in the State of Florida have this type of relationship with another legal service provider. It can be a law firm like ours, it could be the clerk of the court, it could be the state attorney’s office, whoever has that that contract and it’s not just this child support enforcement program, there are a lot of other opportunities out there to have contracts like this to do the work of the state. It’s hard because we’re not state attorneys in Orange County, the parties can confuse that. So, if you have the payor, or the person ordered to pay, that doesn’t have the children. They think we’re always against them, and the payee, the person receiving the child support always thinks that were their attorneys, so they’ll call our office asking for advice, and we have to turn them away. We’re legally obligated to say, “You’ve got to go talk to the State of Florida. They’re our client.” And they don’t really understand that concept. So the bulk of our work actually is telling people, “I’m so sorry, we can’t help you.” We can, but we can’t.
Adriana Linares: Right. That’s really interesting. I don’t know if you have the answer for this but just thinking about other listeners who are probably saying, “How do you do that? How do you find and get these contracts? Do you go visit the contract website that I know every state has, because I actually get them? I get them for Florida, and oddly get them for West Virginia because I had to register their once. So, I know there are emails that go out regularly once you sign up, but do you have any guidance you could give to someone who might be interested, and where do you go look for state or county or federal contracts that you might be able to apply for as a law firm?
Adriana Linares: So most of the websites for the state, the counties and cities, sometimes we forget that cities have contracts. The City of Orlando has a website that shows all of their contracts that are available, so does the State of Florida. That’s where I would start. I also think Google is your friend. Google will come up with all kinds of stuff and then you’ll want to keep checking back. Then going back to what we were talking about bar service, people talk. And when you’re sitting at the table, volunteering for something else, somebody really enjoys working with you, they’re going to say, “Hey, have you thought about applying or bidding for this contract? So, that’s another thing that I would recommend is, get involved in your community, put your ear to the grindstone and your hands to that keyboard, or your phone to Google it, to check those websites because they’re posting them, they’re posting opportunities, all the time, all the time.
Adriana Linares: I get them all the time, not necessarily — obviously, I’m looking for a government agency that makes Microsoft Office training. So I even look for that type of work, and I will also say that I have gotten a contractor to like that, and the bonus was — I’m a female-owned business and I’m Hispanic.
So if you’re out there and you have a couple of extra boxes you can check, you know, there’s no harm in searching seeking, checking boxes and just seeing what comes across the table. So that’s pretty cool.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Absolutely.
Adriana Linares: Alright, let’s take another quick break, listen to some messages from some sponsors, and we’ll be right back.
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All right, everyone we are back. I’m Adriana Linares and I’m here with Ani Rodriguez-Newbern, probably, one of my new best friends. She and I hit it off instantly when we met at the Voluntary Bar Leaders Conference and after this conversation I think we’re going to be even better friends. I have one more question for you though, Ani, and I’m sorry that were like launching our relationship with me quizzing you.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: I’m ready for it. I’m ready for it.
Adriana Linares: Okay, this is true or false. A white wine can be made from red grapes.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Hmm. I’m going to go wild. I’m going to guess, yes.
Adriana Linares: Yes. Good, it’s true. White wines are often made from red grapes, how? The red color comes from the skins so when winemakers produce a white wine from red grapes, they remove the skins quickly after crushing so none of the tint gets into the white. I’m telling you guys this little new hobby of mine has been really interesting. My brain is stimulated. So, thanks for coming on this little wine journey with me, Ani.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: You’re inspiring me to take the class as well. I love science.
Adriana Linares: Yeah.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: And when science also involves wine, I’m here for it.
Adriana Linares: And you know what’s funny? Most people probably don’t know this, but I was a geography major. So I love maps and learning about the land and weather and all sorts of stuff. So this has also been a really cool way to learn about countries and regions and culture and languages. And it’s been really fun and stimulating for me. So if anyone has some great wine tips out, you all know how to get ahold of me. You can send me an email on [email protected] and of course, you can always find me on all the social media platforms. Ani, back to you. I wanted to ask you about your firm infrastructure because I love to talk about practice management and technology a lot. With as busy as your firm must be, you all cannot be running Fred Flintstones Law Firm over there. There’s got to be some level of The Jetsons going on.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: A little bit. Let me take you on a journey.
Adriana Linares: Let’s do it.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Remember back in 2016. You remember what you were doing back in 2016. Remember the smartphone that you had in 2016 and imagine a law firm that’s still was using label like the selectric typewriters.
Adriana Linares: They’re still out there, don’t worry.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: They’re here. They’re here in this law firm because that’s where we were and I went to my mom boss, boss lady and I said we can’t keep doing this. There’s the majority of the real estate of our office are just paper files. We can’t find things. We are spending so much time just looking first for paper. We can do better and so that started our transition into an electronic case management or filing system. The difference with our practice is that we don’t track billable hours. We’re a flat fee and we have one client. So we don’t keep track of anything per case because we just represent the State of Florida. So a lot of the case management systems out there didn’t quite work for us but that doesn’t mean that we’re not still looking. And the big thing that I will share is that this infrastructure of our law firm really hinges on the people and our office manager is 84 years old. He’s been with the law firm what feels like a million years. Our newest hire here is a current student at UCF so we really have all of the generations represented. And so we realized we were only going to be as good as the people we have managing that system. So instead of going out there and going to any of the case management softwares, we said, “You know what, we know how to do the computer.
We know how to do Microsoft products. So let’s work on a Dropbox together and let’s create what we can create so that it makes it an easy transition.” So the first thing you’re going to laugh. We created a folder called the file room. We put all of these folders that that looked like our files and paper and we named them by case and it was easy for our wisdom warriors, our attorneys that have been practicing for so long that really didn’t want to make the transition to say, “Where would I normally look for this?” Oh I would walk over to the file room and so now in their brain they could still take that logical step but just know, “Alright, it’s going to be on my computer.” So we started off with just a Dropbox and just making sure that we could function because it’s just so much data. Fast forward to about four years ago, we were playfully challenged by not the current chief judge but the chief judge with the time to automate and we said, “You know what, I bet you we could do the same because we have a limited number of things that we actually do, just a lot of it that we could automate. We could take one more step.” But at that time, we tried just a mail merge and it didn’t work for us.
Adriana Linares: What?
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: I know it’s crazy and we did it right. I promise. I have a lot – I love Microsoft Excel, I love Word, I love these things so it wasn’t that we didn’t want to use it, it just didn’t make things better. It made things harder or more time-consuming because back to the skill set of the people at the time and I will credit my baby brother for coming on a year ago and saying, “Well, hey have we thought about doing a mail merge.” And I said to him, “You know what, I’m really good at being wrong and let’s try it again. It’s been four years. We like to innovate and, you know, know what maybe things have changed.” And now we’re rocking that mail merge.
Adriana Linares: Yeah.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: When we lost two employees due to COVID and quarantine times and all of the drama that came there, we were not so stressed when we weren’t able to bring on new people at the time. So, I’ll credit him with that. And that’s one of the things that we do here. We really pride ourselves on being really good at being wrong and happy when that happens and that makes us say, “Okay, what can we do better?” So right now we’re trying a project management software because we’ve gone to Cleo, we’ve gone to some of the other case management systems and if they’re listening, let me know because again I’m open to being wrong but because we don’t have the same structure as other law firms a lot of the very specific tools that they offer we just don’t use or we don’t need. So that’s a lot, a lot to share all at once with our intergenerational workplace here and how we started with our little baby building blocks of Dropbox.
Adriana Linares: I mean and that’s why you have to start. And two, I think, you know, I’m not a proponent of technology for technology’s sake, right? I mean, I’m a proponent of implementing technology in a law firm where it makes sense and it’ll make things better. And there are some great and new document assembly tools so mail merge to me is pretty sort of one-to-one. This field fits into that slot, this data fits into that slot and then of course, when you’re ready, Ani, it’s crazy, document assembly has like if this then that.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: I’m so excited for that. What we had to do and maybe this is another share. What we have to do is we had to change — to be able to do this, we had to change our office practice before we would have and, you know, that I have dogs so I’m going to put it in a dog analogy. The culture was if you did something wrong like a dog, you know, taking them over to what they did and say, “Don’t do that anymore,” and we’ve changed our office culture from that to coming together as a group and saying, “Hey, these are our pain points, these are our issues, how do we fix it?” So instead of thinking top-down saying okay, the leader or the top person is the one that’s going to have all the ideas. We’ve made it more of a team atmosphere and that sounds corny and like Michael Scott is going to walk around the corner but I promise you that’s not it. We just sit around in the Monday morning and say, “Hey, what are our opportunities for this week and how can we fix it?” So we get the ideas from the people that are actually doing the work. So when they’re thinking about the big picture, they’re open to change and they’re coming to you saying, “Hey, can we do if then document assembly?
Can we automate this so that when I change the status in our project management sheet that it automatically goes somewhere else.” The past I’d say 30 to 60 days have been really exciting because we see firm-wide, we’ve moved towards that. So, I don’t know, we might be calling you for some extra help, Adriana.
Adriana Linares: Well, you’ll have to come back in about a year and let us know what kind of progress you all have made.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: You got it. I’d be honored.
Adriana Linares: And it’s been really fun chatting with you. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me and our listeners, I know they’re going to enjoy this conversation. Tell everyone how they can find friend or follow you out there on the Internet.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Well, thanks for having me. This has been a lot of fun and I’ve learned a lot about wine and I look forward to listening to more of your questions for other people.
Adriana Linares: I don’t know if this will be a recurring thing but I don’t know. I may have moved on to my next hobby by the next episode.
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Well I’m here for that too. So my law firm because of the type of work that we do, we don’t have a website, but I’m on social media and I’m always at the next bar association event for all of the Orange County Orlando Central Florida stuff. You can find me on The Bar’s website by looking at my name. My Legal name is Ana. That’s another fun fact for another interview but I’m also on Facebook, Instagram. Apparently I’m supposed to get on TikTok so they say so the best part about it is that my name is my name so if you look it up, there aren’t very many other Ani’s out there, at least with my long last name. So come find me on LinkedIn. I am always open to sharing about me and about what I’m up to.
Adriana Linares: One last question, when you’re in the office, do you call your mom “mom,” or do you call her Ana?
Ani Rodriguez-Newbern: Depends. We go with Ana for the staff and for everybody but she sometimes, if I want to accentuate a point, she’ll get mom boss, boss lady. Yeah, yeah. There’s some of that. It just depends on the vibe of the day but mostly first name for business.
Adriana Linares: All right, everyone. We’ve reached the end of another great episode of New Solo. Thank you so much for listening. Hey, by the way, if you have any questions that you’d like me to answer whether they’re about technology or practice management or thinking about going out on your, feel free. Please send me an email at [email protected] and I’ll start answering some of those questions on our podcasts. Until the next episode of New Solo. Thank you so much for listening and we’ll see you then.