How new solos Taly Goody and Michelle Fonseca-Kamana create videos for social media that attract clients and referrals.
Taly Goody is the founder of Goody Law Group, LLP, in Los Angeles. There she focuses on...
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana is the founder of West Coast Lemons, where she represents consumers in claims that their...
Adriana Linares is a law practice consultant and legal technology coach. After several years at two of...
Guests: Taly Goody is a personal injury lawyer, and Michelle Fonseca-Kamana exclusively practices lemon law. Both immersed themselves in social media, successfully leveraging the platforms as free marketing channels.
New Insights (brought to you by Nota):
Special thanks to our sponsors, Lawclerk, Alert Communications, Abby Connect, and Clio.
Adriana Linares: Before we get started with today’s episode I want to make sure and thank our sponsors Alert Communications, Law Clerk, Clio, and Abby Connect.
As the largest legal only call center in the U.S., Alert Communications helps law firms, and legal marketing agencies with new client intake. Alert captures and responds to all leads 24/7, 365 as an extension of your firm in both English and Spanish. Alert uses proven intake methods, customizing responses as needed, which earns the trust of clients and improves client retention. To find out how Alert can help your law office, call (866) 827-5568, or visit alertcommunications.com/ltn.
Intro: So, if I was starting today as a new solo – entrepreneurial aspect; You have to change their practices; I wish that they’ve done it earlier; We do that by organizing; What it means by becoming fulfilled and becoming a leader; Your law firm’s new approach; new tools, new mind mindset, New Solo. And it’s making that leap.
Adriana Linares: All right. It’s time for another episode of New Solo on Legal Talk Network. I am your host, Adriana Linares. With me today, I have two incredibly impressive Attorneys: Michelle Fonseca-Kamana, and Taly Goody. Did I say that right, Michelle?
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Yes, spot on.
Adriana Linares: All right, and then Taly Goody?
Atty. Taly Goody: You got it.
Adriana Linares: Got it. I love it, and then I’m just going to spell those out in case people want to Google you, or we’re going to tell them how to find you on Instagram because that’s what we are here to talk about. Taly is T-A-L-Y. Goody, G-O-O-D-Y, and Michelle Fonseca is probably how it sounds dash K-A-M-A-N-A. Well thank you ladies so much for taking the time to come on New Solo, and chat with me. I invited you on to the show because I consider you two of my favorite Instagram stars.
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Thank you.
Atty. Taly Goody: Thank you.
Adriana Linares: You all had a post on Instagram where the two of you, and a third attorney were doing a seminar of some sort. I think that’s what made me think how smartly you all are using social media, and that’s what I want to talk about. But before we do that, I’m going to start with Michelle. Michelle, you are the lemon law lawyer, and I like I like your website. I’m going to just pull it up real quick because one of the things that I really like about your home page, and this is again, like just always thinking about helping lawyers make good decisions about their websites and technology, and how they’re communicating. I love the way your website says, “The lemon law isn’t just part of my practice, it is my practice. Some law firms know a little bit about a lot of things, not me, I know a lot about one thing, lemon law.” That’s pretty cool. How did you get it?
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: (00:02:55)
Adriana Linares: Yeah, right. How did you get into lemon law, and explain what lemon law is, in case someone doesn’t know what it is or maybe they live in a State where they don’t have lemon laws, because I don’t think every State has lemon law, right?
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Right. Every State has a different lemon law. So, the States really vary widely, and California has the strongest lemon law. So, I’m very happy that I practice here. But in a nutshell, it’s really the law that protects consumers when they buy a defective vehicle or RV. So, you usually have that manufacturer’s warranty when you buy a car, and that warranty protects you if anything goes wrong, they have to pay for the parts and labor, but what happens sometimes is that, despite multiple repair attempts, your car is not going to be fixed, and when that happens, that’s when you want to talk to a lemon law attorney because you are entitled to your money back or a replacement vehicle.
Adriana Linares: And how did you not to look at you, and think, “Oh, wow. You look pretty young.” But you both look like young lawyers or you’re just going to tell me what you’re using on your faces for your skin products, and maybe it’s a combination of both. But how did you get to a niche like this? I’m assuming a young career, have you been a lawyer for a long time?
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: I’ve been a lawyer for coming up on seven years, so I passed back in 2014.
Adriana Linares: Yeah.
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: I started young, graduated college at 17,.
Adriana Linares: Oh, my gosh.
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: College had been in law school at 24. I just kind of kept it pushing. So, I have had quite a bit of experience under my belt, but surprisingly, I didn’t start out doing lemon. I started out doing out criminal defense, and that’s where I got a lot of my in-court experience, and that’s I think where a lot of the confidence comes in. With my civil litigation now is that, I’m not afraid of the courtroom, but what happened was, I took a job out in Fresno doing criminal defense, and I just wanted to get back down to southern California. So, I took the first job that really popped up, and gave me a job offer, and it happened to be at a lemon law firm. fast forward, it turns out I was very good at it. I went on to work at a different law firm where the main partner had been doing this for 30 years. So, he took me under his wing. Really taught me the ins, and out of the law, and the time the time came where I had to make a decision whether I wanted to continue his legacy, and take over this practice, or start from scratch, and do it on my own, and I chose option two.
Adriana Linares: Oh, my gosh. That’s so brave, and believe me, a lot of my listeners here conversations like this, and I’m sure they think that too. “Oh, my gosh that’s so brave.” But you did it, and so, how long have you been out on your own?
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Just over a year. I —
Adriana Linares: Oh, my gosh.
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Yeah, like three weeks before the pandemic hit. So, it’s been a roller coaster. So, I truly believe, if I can do that, all of you guys can do it in 2021.
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: For sure if we can survive especially new practices, new law firms can survive. You’re right, we can definitely do it moving forward. Now, Taly and looking at your website, one of my favorite things that I found on your website that you said, which I think is important, and I want you to tell me why you felt this was important to say, is you wrote or your homepage says, “Taly Goody, Esquire founded GLG and brings a refreshing twist to old-school law firm techniques, and outdated methods. So, tell me, where you at a firm that had old school like Fred Flintstone’s law firm, and you thought– well you guys probably don’t even know who the Flintstones and the Jetsons are, but that’s the example that I always use. So, were you at Fred Flintstone’s law firm, and decided you wanted to go work for George Jetson?
Atty. Taly Goody: Yeah, I know. I really was at a law firm. Prior to opening my own firm, I was working in Century City, doing art law, and art litigation.
Adriana Linares: Art law?
Atty. Taly Goody: Yes, very interesting niche area of law, and it was just, it was a great experience, but very traditional, and I wanted to bring my own style authenticity into my own firm. So, that’s kind of why I added that on my website. I was like, “what, I want to feel like it’s not what you’re going to get at every law firm you go to you.” like, the typical traditional lawyer. I want to be a little bit different.
Adriana Linares: You wanted to be George Jetson’s law firm.
Atty. Taly Goody: Yes. Yeah.
Adriana Linares: Jane, his wife. Well, well that’s great. And so, how long have you had your practice?
Atty. Taly Goody: It’s been a year, and six months.
Adriana Linares: Okay, oh good. So, the two of you are sort of in sync. And are you two good friends or how did you get to doing presentations together on Instagram or together, were you friends before or did you somehow meet over Instagram, and decide you’d make a “dynamic duo?” Like, tell me the back story between the two of you.
Atty. Taly Goody: So, we actually met in an organization called, Justice Headquarters. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it?
Adriana Linares: No, tell us about it.
Atty. Taly Goody: Basically it’s just a really great community for lawyers to unite, and work together, and there is a workspace, but we also collaborate with one another, and most attorneys in Justice HQ are consumer attorneys or plaintiff’s attorneys. And so, it’s a really good opportunity to use. Especially me, I switched practice areas. So, I went from art law to personal injury. So, I joined this organization because there’s so many good resources, so many great people that have knowledge that want to share, and there’s people in all different experience levels. Like, we’re kind of the newbies, and then there’s more experienced people and so anyway, I met Michelle through that organization through Justice HQ.
Adriana Linares: And where is it located?
Atty. Taly Goody: It has several locations. There’s one in downtown LA. There’s one in Orange County. I think, they’re opening one in San Diego soon, and there’s going to be one going to be one in Torrance, which is close to where we are.
Adriana Linares: Yeah, it is. So, Taly and I just figured out that we’re probably about two miles from each other right now, if even because I’m in our LA office as I like to call it, and both of you are based in California, so that’s really great. Cool. So, the two of you met at Justice HQ hit, it off, and then tell me where you using social media personally or professionally before each of you decided to go out on your own? How did social media become, and maybe it’s not, maybe I’m blowing it up, and it just seems like it’s more important than it is, but tell me a little bit. I’ll let you go first Michelle, about social media in your practice.
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Yeah. So, prior to opening up my own firm, I had a personal Instagram page, but it was a private account. I knew all of my followers, it was just a very small group of people where I was just sharing whatever I felt like sharing, but I wasn’t on their very much. But when I started my practice, I could see that social media was going to be a great tool for me. And when I started, I also knew I didn’t have whole lot of money to spend on advertising.
Adriana Linares: Sure.
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: I saw that social media was a way for me to get free advertising out there. Whatever I posted, I could just blast it whatever. Repurpose it from LinkedIn to TikTok to Facebook to Instagram, and really just be my Instagram, and really just be my biggest hype person because if no one knew who I was, I was never going to get those clients to be able to serve them. So, I knew I needed to get my name out there somehow, and social media seemed like a good way to do it.
Adriana Linares: Excellent. What about you Taly?
Atty. Taly Goody: For me, I had my own personal account. It was public. I kind of would just post traveling pictures, and things like that, and then, when I opened my own law firm, I created a Goody law group account. So, my firm’s account on Instagram, and then a few months later I created a TikTok with Goody Law Group. And so, I started with those platforms, and then basically, after posting on TikTok, and Instagram, I started to convert my personal account into more of a legal account as well, so they can kind of put a “face” to the firm. I want it to be like a Goody Law Group, and then, I’m the founder, and it kind of like, they go back and forth, it’s consistent. So, that’s why decided to change kind of the style of my personal page, and make it more legal-related.
Adriana Linares: Okay. So, you’re on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter?
Atty. Taly Goody: I’m not on Twitter yet.
Adriana Linares: Michelle, are you the same? Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn, but no Twitter?
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Yep.
Adriana Linares: That’s interesting. So, I stalk you both on Instagram, and your posts are amazing. As a matter of fact, I just want to pull a couple of them up, and I want you to break down, how you do this? I’m going to start with Michelle, I think, because you had one a couple weeks ago Michelle. Let me show them in the right place. Michelle, your Instagram say it out loud, while I’m putting it in.
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: It’s at West Coast Lemon.
Adriana Linares: West Coast Lemons. So, you’ve got your profile picture, you have 2500 followers plus, it says, “Michelle Fonseca-Kamana, Esquire. Founder of West Coast Lemons.” You’ve got a little lemon in there. “California lemon law extraordinaire.” I love it. “Here to serve California info only. Yahoo finances 2021 game changing women in law.” Congratulations, that’s pretty cool. So, that’s all in your bio, and then you’ve got your website link down there. Then under that, you’ve got categories, which I want you to explain categories, you’ve got a section for RVs, you’ve got a section for cars, Frequently Asked Questions, and awards. The one that I really like that I saw the other day was, you’re, “the most common mistakes people make when buying a car.” So, I want everyone who’s listening to this to get on Instagram, and go to West Coast Lemons, and find this post. It’s on, let’s see, March 24th, and it’s you, and you don’t even say anything. I don’t think? Yeah, you’re playing music, so there’s background music, but you’ve got text on top of it that says, “The most common mistakes people make when buying a car. Agreeing to all the extras the dealer says you need, not reading all the paperwork, not knowing.” So, you’ve got all these little clips, which I assume are your Frequently Asked Questions, and the questions that people mostly ask you. And I think this is brilliant because anybody could need a lemon law lawyer. So, I think a lot of lawyers are afraid that the platform isn’t going to meet the consumers. But for you, and I imagine for you too, Taly, and I didn’t ask you about your practice, but you said, you do personal injury?
Atty. Taly Goody: Yes.
Adriana Linares: Anybody who’s going through here could need either a lawyer like you. So, tell me a little bit about, what it takes to create these very clever, very information-filled stories on Instagram?
Atty. Taly Goody: So for me, I’m on my phone a lot anyway, as most millennials are, so I’ve tried to do something called strategic scrolling basically I’m scrolling anyway, but when I’m looking at other people’s reels, I will look at it through the lens of, “Can I do something with this audio or what they’re doing with the text?” Something that I can repurpose as well, and so, I’ll go through, and if there’s an audio that I like, like for that one for example, the Britney Spears, like “Oops, oops, oops, I was like, “Oh, no.” All the oops is what I see going wrong all the time. So, what I do is, I’ll save the audio, so I can go back to it later on when I shoot because don’t look like this every day. I’m usually, no makeup, hair is a mess, but I’m strategic with when I shoot this content. So, I’ll have my hair and makeup day, and then I’ll have all my saved audios, and then I keep notes in my Note’s app with the audio name, and then the idea that I have. So that, when I do have these shooting days, I can just go back, and pull it up and say, “Okay, I’m going to shoot this with this audio, and this is the text I’m going to add in.” And it just streamlines the whole process, so that it really doesn’t have to take a lot of time if you’re strategic with it that way.
Adriana Linares: And Taly, yours okay, so let’s break down your profile way real quick. It’s really good too. Taly Goody. Oh, wait this is your personal blog. I got to go find your other one too. But personal blog, “Attorney and founder, Scales of Justice.” So, cute. “At Goody Law Group” is your other one. So, your personal one references your business Instagram. “Vegan and animal advocate, empowering aspiring lawyers.” Which is another thing I want to talk about with you two. And then you’ve got, “Schedule a meeting with me.” And then you use, Linktree, which I use too, and we should talk about that in just a second. Let me click real quick on Goody Law Group; lawyer and law firm, Los Angeles, practicing personal injury, and employment law. Founded by” References your personal, Taly Goody, Esquire. “Schedule a free consultation.” And back to Linktree, and then you do the same thing. Three reasons why insurance companies want a recorded statement from you after you get injured. Also, very well produced. So, you do the same thing. You find a Frequently Asked Question, you freaking cram this Instagram with information, and tell me about the process that you go through for making these posts? And then do you also put them on Facebook and link the same ones? Do you repurpose the same ones?
Atty. Taly Goody: Yeah. So, my process is pretty similar to how Michelle does it. My home base app where I film everything is TikTok though. I don’t film on Instagram. I don’t know why. I just feel like Instagram Reels for me, is not user-friendly. So, I’ve only filmed all of my TikTok’s or I use them as Reels too on TikTok. Once I post it there, I’ll transfer it to Reels, repurpose it, and then I’ll repurpose it onto Fakebook as well.
Adriana Linares: The same one.
Atty. Taly Goody: The same ones, and my process is pretty similar like, I’ll schedule maybe once or twice a week where I’m going to film, and before that film day, I mean, make sure know exactly what I’m going to film, so it’s not like I’m wasting time planning, when I’m supposed to be filming because that way, it can turn into a full day filming, and when you’re like, “Ah, I didn’t even do what I wanted to do.” I’ve had those frustrating days before were felt like I wanted to get stuff in, and didn’t get one good piece, and I spent so much time on it. So, power of planning is so important for content creation.
Adriana Linares: Oh, that’s a very, very good tip. Okay, let me back up, and just explain some basics in case we have listeners that don’t know what these things are, but you probably have to explain it to me. All right, so Instagram has typically a one-minute length for its posts, and then that’s the normal Instagram where it all started where one minute length, and it could be a movie or just a series of pictures or just a post with nothing moving, just a regular picture. And then Reels, is there longer version of a post?
Atty. Taly Goody: Reels is only 30 seconds that the max it can do. Yeah.
Adriana Linares: 30 seconds, and then IG TV/stories can be longer?
Atty. Taly Goody: IG TV, I’m not sure how long. I think as long as you want it to go. Stories is only 15 seconds per story.
Adriana Linares: So, there’s all these different types of posts it’s so confusing even I have not had time to figure it all out, but let’s go back to another thing. So, when it comes to Instagram, your tip is, “Plan ahead, create good content.” And when you say film, are you doing all these on your iPhone, Michelle?
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: I am yeah. iPhone and a ring light.
Adriana Linares: iPhone and a ring light. What about you Taly?
Atty. Taly Goody: iPhone, ring light. That’s it,
Adriana Linares: And then you’re using apps or I suppose does TikTok have most of the ability to edit and produce the videos within it, and that’s maybe why you use it over there? Because I found out with Instagram, I’ve got to go use unfold or some other program in order to really add all the bells and whistles that want.
Atty. Taly Goody: TikTok for the most part has the basic functions that you need. Now, if you want to make a really advanced looking video, you might need to use like those video editing apps. I usually don’t. I just kind of stick to TikTok, and then —
Adriana Linares: Good.
Atty. Taly Goody: — transfer them over. But I have to remove the watermark that’s very important.
Adriana Linares: The TikTok watermark.
Atty. Taly Goody: We have to remove that before you post it on Instagram because apparently Instagram will not push your stuff out in the algorithm.
Adriana Linares: If it has the TikTok.
Atty. Taly Goody: And I don’t know how true that is, but I try to stick to that, if that’s what they’re saying.
Adriana Linares: Okay, let’s take a quick break. We’ve got a new segment, we’re going to be doing for a while here, it’s called the legal trends report minute from Clio.
Joshua Lenon: It’s a fact solo law firms stand to benefit from technology adoption 35 percent more than larger law firms. This is based on data that shows how key technology solutions for lawyers helped solo practitioners earn fifty thousand dollars more than other firms on a per lawyer basis. I’m Joshua Lenon, lawyer-in-residence at Clio. In today’s world, technologies like online payments, client portals, and client intake software help lawyers deliver the types of online services that have become essential to legal practice, but while solo law firms tend to benefit the most, we’ve also seen that they’ve been slower to adopt these types of Cloud technologies that today’s clients look for. To learn more about the unique advantages that solo attorneys have over other law firms, and much more for free, download Clio’s legal trends report for solo law firms at clio.com/solo. That’s Clio spelled C-L-I-O.
Adriana Linares: All right, we’re back. I’ve got Taly Goody, and Michelle Fonseca Kamana with me, and we are talking Instagram. We’re going to talk TikTok now, because I can assure you, there are lawyers out there who are rolling their eyes going, “TikTok? My 12-year-old is on TikTok watching videos of skating, and dance breakouts,” well not at the mall because nobody goes to the mall anymore, but tell me about TikTok, and getting on TikTok deciding to add that to your platforms of social media, and I want to hear from both of you, if you get clients from Instagram and TikTok? Before we even move on to the other platforms that I know you use. Why don’t you start, Michelle?
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Okay, so I recently got on TikTok most of my social media presence was on Instagram, but I finally made the jump, and gone on TikTok, and really, it’s kind of the same strategy as Instagram. I repurpose a lot of my stuff. I actually film everything in Instagram because don’t think TikTok’s user friendly.
Adriana Linares: That’s funny you’re opposites.
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Yeah. So, I purpose it that way, but there are certain tools that TikTok has that Instagram doesn’t. For example, the voice over ability. I did a Sex in the City theme one where, I needed the voice over to do the whole Carrie Bradshaw talking over the last scenes. So, I do use TikTok for certain specialized videos like that, but for the most part I’m shooting in Instagram, and going on TikTok. But what really changed my mind about it was, for a while, I wasn’t seeing anything, but then I started getting calls from people on TikTok saying, “Oh, I found you on TikTok.” And I was shocked to be honest. I mean, I’m like, I am in social media. TikTok I was still a little bit hesitant about because I wasn’t getting the views, and the range I was seeing on Instagram, but then, when I started getting leads from it, then I was like, “Okay, we’re on to something.” And know that, Taly is fantastic at TikTok. She’s the queen of TikTok. So, I’m here to learn from her too.
Adriana Linares: Wow, that’s amazing. Let me ask you, Michelle before I move back to Taly. What apps do you use other than the native apps for Instagram and TikTok to produce your videos, if anything?
Atty. Taly Goody: So, I use Canva a lot. It’s great for some of those covers on the Reels, and I do a lot of reviews, and settlement announcements. I do it all directly from Canva, and it’s very low-cost. I think it’s like 120 a year, and it’s got a background remover that is just killer. You can you can take photos in your backyard, and take away the background, and suddenly, you’ve got this professional photo of you in a suite. So, I highly recommend that.
Adriana Linares: And let me explain, just real quick too. So, Canva is a Cloud-based, web-based subscription services that allows you to create really good images, content, collaterals, so you can do movies, you could do a Facebook post, or a Facebook cover, or an Instagram post, or an Instagram cover, you can create brochures from there, you can design a logo. So, it has a lot of functions. It does have an iPhone app probably, an Android too. And I pay for it as well, for 120 a year, it’s like a no-brainer just considering, I produce a lot of content for the bar, or for my consulting business. So, I agree that Canva is worth it, even if you’re not going to use it for the purposes that you’re using it for, Michelle. It’s a nice tool. It’s like Photoshop, but for dummies, but better. Okay, and then you’re going to mention another one.
Atty. Taly Goody: So, I’ve also started using InShot for certain things. I think that was the one where, it’ll give you automatic captions. I think, Instagram is kind of rolling this out anyway, but you can upload a video. I did this lemon law song where I was singing a song about lemon law that I made up, but I wanted people to be able to read it, and not just rely on my not so ideal singing voice. So, I plugged it into InShot, and it would put the text out there, and it looks cool. It was like, nice fonts. It wasn’t like some of the captions that you see that are kind of ugly in OneNote. It was like, kind of bigger lettering, and it’ll go along with your voice. So, I thought that was really helpful, and I don’t think paid for that one either. So that one, I highly recommend especially if you want to start getting on the caption train and have it look pretty, that was a good one.
Adriana Linares: Yeah, I like InShot. I’m using it of course; it’s taking me forever to create a long video of a bunch of short videos. So, you can stitch the videos together, and then you can individually edit those segments, stitch them together and even have transitions between. So, for those of you that aren’t familiar with these tools, it’s a little bit like taking PowerPoint, and combining it with something like Canva, so you have transitions, and you’ve got text that you can overlay, you’ve got music you can overlay, you can shorten a video, you can do all sorts of creative things. So, it is a little bit time-consuming. Any other apps that you want to mention, Michelle?
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: I think that’s all I use, that’s pretty simple.
Adriana Linares: Okay, what about you Taly?
Atty. Taly Goody: The apps that I use? I really keep it simple myself. I don’t feel like I use anything. I do use Videoleap sometimes. If I want to get more into fine tuning a TikTok, and sometimes for example, when I want repurpose a TikTok to Instagram Reels, keep in mind, TikTok allows you to post a video up to one minute. Instagram Reels is only 30 seconds. So, prior to repurposing, I would just have videos kind of go a little bit longer usually on TikTok, but now that I’m repurposing, I want to be able to cut them, and so sometimes, you want to cut them from the middle of the video, and you can’t do that through just the regular app. So, you have to use these other apps to do it. And it’s like very complicated. I don’t really think it’s user friendly. I still am trying to figure it out, but Videoleap is the one I use.
Adriana Linares: And then have you also had a positive response from potential new clients or clients through both, or one more than the other?
Atty. Taly Goody: Yeah. So, TikTok was actually amazing for me. Like, when started practicing on TikTok, keep in mind this was when nobody was really on TikTok. So, I took advantage of it. I started; I was on TikTok in like January 2020 before the pandemic. Everyone started getting on TikTok during the pandemic, like during quarantine, and so, I feel like, it started getting saturated at that point; a lot of people coming on. But prior to that, I had a couple viral videos, and after that, I got two of my biggest personal injury cases from TikTok.
Adriana Linares: That’s amazing.
Atty. Taly Goody: And from one of them, I’ve have gotten five other referrals because it’s all in the same area, and so, they’re referring other cases to me, and I’m like, “This is amazing.” So, it’s crazy how you can use these free apps, and you don’t have to even pay for marketing.
Adriana Linares: It’s free, and this is the thing that’s so amazing, and all these people who think — and I do realize too that, if you’re a business developer, and you ‘relooking for a commercial real estate lawyer, maybe you’re not going to find him or her on TikTok, you might find him on Instagram. But I think for the right areas of law, which both of you have, which are very, consumer, average, normal, person could need your services, it’s obviously very powerful. I mean, it’s a testimony what both of you are saying. And then, tell me about, what about, compared to Facebook and LinkedIn, are you just like, “Ugh, I don’t even bother with those. My grandparents are on those sites.”
Atty. Taly Goody: I feel like LinkedIn, I’ve heard a lot of positive things about it. I just haven’t gotten to the point where I’ve been keeping up with it because everyone is saying, “LinkedIn is amazing. I’ve made so many connections.” My husband actually uses it, he’s also a lawyer, and he’s gotten a lot of case referrals through LinkedIn. Me personally, I just haven’t used it. I do want to get on to it, but it’s just one other platform that I have to keep up with. So, I’m a little hesitant about it. I have a profile. I’m just not active, I guess.
Adriana Linares: You’re TikTok and Instagram-heavy, light on LinkedIn, and Facebook?
Atty. Taly Goody: I basically just whenever I post on Instagram, I just copy it on to Facebook. I don’t do anything outrageous on Facebook.
Adriana Linares: Okay. Michelle what about you, in that the gamut of platforms?
Atty. Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Yeah. I started getting more on LinkedIn especially with certain videos. I don’t post every video from Instagram to LinkedIn. I do think it is a more conservative professional audience. So, some of them, I don’t think are geared towards that, but some of my videos that are about the legal profession in general, or even a joke about where I posted one, where it was like, when defense counsel threatens to go to trial and it’s just me laughing with some obnoxious like Kevin Hart laugh, you know, those kinds of things, you know, bring you to top of mind and honestly think, if you’re able to make people laugh, they’re more likely to like you. If they like you, they’re more likely to trust you. If they trust you, they’re more likely to refer cases to you. And so, that’s been kind of the cycle I’ve been going through with my content, and LinkedIn has done. I’ve gotten referrals from LinkedIn. I’ve gotten cases from consumers finding me on Facebook. I’m not on there, very, very, much either, but just having that presence there, and then the other one I forgot to mention was, YouTube. I also have a YouTube channel, and I find clients from there as well. So, it’s just, you just have to be out there. It doesn’t need to be videos all the time, but as you’re out there, it’s going to help people find you.
Adriana Linares: And do you think, and Taly answer this one first, and then, we can ask Michelle. Do you think people go to TikTok, or Instagram to find a lemon law lawyer or a personal injury lawyer, or is it, they’re just on these platforms because they’re fun, you somehow end up in the algorithm. You get shown to them and then they’re like, “Oh, I could use a Lemon Law lawyer or my boyfriend got hurt at work yesterday, I need to call this lady.”
Taly Goody: I think it’s both and I actually noticed that you know, all my videos that I post
that are geared directly to personal injury, I will #personalinjurycalifornia and I recently just went on them. I was like, “Well, I just want to see, like what are the top posts” and my videos were the top posts for personal injury California, personal injury. So, I remember I had gotten random people commenting saying, “Hey, I think I have a personal injury case. Can you reach out to me?” and then I’d start messaging them. So, I think it happens in both ways.
Adriana Linares: Interesting.
Taly Goody: I think sometimes they’re scrolling, because when I got that one big case, she
called and said, “It’s so crazy, I was scrolling and I needed a personal injury alert you popped up on my main page” and I was like, “Amazing. I’m like, meant to be.” And then on the other hand, I have people searching the hashtag. So, I think it works both ways in that sense.
Adriana Linares: What do you find, Michelle?
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: I completely agree because I’ve gotten, you know, clients both ways where it was, you know, “Oh, I just happen to be scrolling and they see me and that’s where they follow me” and I’m pretty constant about, “Hey, I do Lemon Law.” But I try to say it in different ways. It’s not so much like, “You have a Lemon, I can help you” you know? So, I do try to be top of mind for what that day come that they have a Lemon or their friend or family has Lemon. But I also, with the hashtag, you know, I do #lemonlaw #attorneylawyer,
all that stuff and some people are looking for it. So, I’ve gotten a lot of people from YouTube and Facebook that are actively looking for a Lemon Law attorney or they’re looking at information regarding a video I posted. So, they’ll find me that way.
Adriana Linares: That’s amazing. I want to just say out loud that you’ve said twice, “I want to stay top of mind” and that’s a really important marketing term, that when I have marketing experts on here, we talk about that all the time. And a lot of times, you know, social media
might not seem the first place that somebody would go to advertise if you’re a lawyer. But what happens is, if you are constantly showing up in someone’s feed whether it’s Facebook or LinkedIn, you’re always top of mind, meaning they might not need a Lemon Lawyer now
or they might never have thought about needing a personal injury attorney. But when the time comes that somebody, whether it’s themselves or a friend needs that type of lawyer they’ll go, “Oh, I can think of one” because you are “top of mind.” So, it’s a really important marketing term to keep in mind, and it might not happen overnight. It might not be from one video like the both of you are very active, and you said Michelle, you know that, “I show up a lot once they, you know, like and click one time.” Whether they follow you or not, you’re going to show up again when they go looking for — like when I hit search or sometimes it’ll — you know, videos you might like, the algorithms are freakishly nosey, I guess in turn.
Okay everybody, this is the final question for our two guests Eric Ganci and Robert Southwell who in case you missed it, have been doing a question-and-answer series during our new insight segment. And I want to make sure and thank Nota, powered by M&T Bank for their
support of this segment. To learn more, please visit trustnoda.com. Terms and conditions may apply.
All right, Robert, this is your last chance. I’m just kidding. I know Eric will always be happy to answer questions for you. What’s your last question for Eric?
Robert Southwell: I’m just wondering, Eric, who are some of the trial attorneys you thought were most effective, either people you learned about or read about? Who are maybe some of your top ones and what do you think made them or particularly good litigator in the courtroom?
Eric Ganci: So, I have names for sure of people that I just love, love, love, love and I think that they’re fantastic. It won’t do you a whole lot of good if I just like roll off a list of names unless you happen to know these people, which maybe you do. But I will instead talk about the traits that I love about them and that’s kind of what you asked me anyway, about what makes them particularly effective. I’ll break this down with lawyers that are on the same side
of the V as me, and then there are also lots of lawyers that I have went against opposing that I thought that they were fantastic lawyers or that I thought that they did some nice things.
So, lawyers that are on the same side of the V as me that I think are wonderful at trial, the traits that I’m looking for are, if they know how to really listen well. So trial is like so much preparation, preparation, preparation, preparation, but then when you get into the mode of doing the trial, you have to be so prepared, but you can’t be married to a script, or a list of questions that you have. You have to be very good at knowing what you want to ask, but then having a very real conversation, and that comes in terms of people that are really good listeners. So, you have a witness on the stand whether it’s direct examination or cross-examination, voir dire, and even really opening and closing to a certain extent.
Although jurors and you know, judges, don’t talk usually during closing and opening, but you can tell by body language and you know, eyeball language and like that kind of stuff. But you’re just getting a feel for what people are listening to. How are they taking in your information and how are you responding to that? And with having a witness on the stand, when you’re really listening to them and then you’re responding, you’re not just rolling through a list of questions that you have prepared, you’re instead having a conversation with them and that makes it so much more real to your audience, i.e., the jurors or the judge.
So having lawyers that really know how to listen and that comes part of I’m being prepared, I liken it to music also because I have a background in music, that when you — like woodshed stuff and you’re practicing your instrument, you’re practicing like rudiments and like the basic stuff and you’re practicing scales and long tones and that kind of stuff. But then when it comes time to perform with a group, or if you’re doing a solo for like an audience, you’re being present in the moment to really take in what’s happening, so that you can respond with other players or respond with the audience and know how to present your art that way.
Lawyers that are on the other side of the V, it’s actually a very similar or have similar likes and dislikes about that. It is so much easier when you’re going or when you’re opposing a lawyer if they are prepared and if they know what they’re doing and if they know the law very well, and trial procedure. Those lawyers, I love going with or against. The lawyers that are very difficult to go against or to oppose are the lawyers that are like super fresh, really hungry, but they don’t know what they’re doing. So, they don’t have experience. They may not have talent or understanding as to like law, civil procedure or that kind of stuff. It’s kind of like dealing with like a baby vampire if you’re into like vampire mythology and novels and stuff,
Where baby vampires are born and they’re just like terrors, where they just like eat everything and they’re just killing everybody and sucking blood everywhere. It can be really frustrating — you know; I’ve never been around a baby vampire. I just read about them, but I can only
imagine how exhausting it would be.
But if you have a newbie lawyer on the other side and if they’re doing that and they’re just hungry to win as opposed to really knowing what they’re doing, that can be really hard to deal with, because you’re needing to understand what they’re doing, how they’re doing it and why it’s wrong and then know that law, and then how to stop it from happening. Because a lot of times, judges, either may not intervene because it’s not their trial, you know, probably, that they may just want to stay out of the way. Although most judges that I have dealt with would jump in and like put a kabash to a lawyer that is doing something improper. But also, you know, jurors how they perceive a lawyer that’s just going for the jugular, you know if they are doing it wrong, jurors, may not know if they’re doing it wrong. They could just see, “Wow, that person is really passionate. They must really believe in what they’re doing. Therefore, they must be right” and that can be a very dangerous position to be in. So, the main things that I love about lawyers — the lawyers that I love, is preparation and listening. Those would be my two biggest things that I can say about that.
Adriana Linares: Well, Robert, I can’t thank you enough for kind of coming on as a guinea pig and doing this for us. I’m sure a lot of my listeners are really going to appreciate your questions and Eric’s answers and thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I hope it helped.
Robert Southwell: No, it did. I really appreciate some of those answers and any time Eric wants to come on and I can pick his brain, be happy to do it again.
Eric Ganci: Hey, you know what? This has been my absolute pleasure. Truth be told, any chance I get to be around you, Adriana, is just a complete blast and it’s so much fun. It’s important with the legal field to really give back to others even though you want to advocate and that can be so stressful. But you know, lawyering has so much of the good that we can give back to our communities and to each other. So, I am more than happy to always do this,
but especially if you ask me to, I will do it.
Adriana Linares: We should probably do that. That’s a great idea. All right everyone, I hope that was as helpful for you as it was for Robert and fun for Eric. Look for more new insights in future episodes of New Solo with new guests.
Advertiser: Your legal work requires your full attention. So how can you answer all the phone calls from new or existing clients while juggling your caseload? Try Abby Connect, the friendly, industry-trained live receptionist, who are well-known for consistently providing high quality customer service, lead intake and appointment setting to firms just like yours. Visit abby.com/ltn or call 833-abbywow for your free 14-day trial and $95 off your first bill.
Advertiser: Lawclerk is where attorneys go to hire freelance lawyers. Whether you need a research memo or a complicated appellate brief, our network of freelance lawyers has every level of experience and expertise. Signing up is free and there are no monthly fees, only pay the flat fee price you said. Use rebate code NEWSOLO to get $100 Amazon gift card when you complete your next project. Learn more at lawclerk.legal.
Adriana Linares: Okay and we’re back. We’re having a great conversation with Michelle Fonseca-Kamana, Lemon Law layer in California, and Taly Goody, personal injury attorney also in California.
One of the things that I love about both of your feeds is that, yes you post about what you do and frequently ask questions and you’re certainly gearing a lot of the content toward potential customers and clients, and people who just have questions about your areas of law. But the other thing that both of you do is inspire others with some of your posts. Let me do
Michelle first because this one came up and this was a Calvin Harris song that you did on the back end which all of us that are over 40 are going to go Google Calvin Harris. But just so you know, he used to be Taylor Swift’s boyfriend. Is that right?
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: I forgot about that.
Adriana Linares: Yeah. Okay, U think that’s right. All right. So, here’s one from Michelle,
which is inspirational. She writes, “Sometimes, we can be our own worst enemies. So, I’m here to remind you that you can do whatever you set your mind to and work your ass off for.”
And then you’ve got a little music and then the overlay text says, “Mind over matter. You can do anything you set your mind to. Hustle, go get it. Go after it.” And then let me pull up one of Taly’s, you do a lot of good ones too and yours are geared toward — I think you do a little more female focused, I think?
Taly Goody: Yeah, and aspiring lawyer focused too.
Adriana Linares: Yes.
Taly Goody: It’s aspiring lawyer, yeah.
Adriana Linares: Young lawyers, oh here’s one. Okay, this is another good one and they’re so personal and sweet. I mean you both are so endearing, “Before starting law school, I definitely had moments when I felt lost and unsure about the direction I was going with my career. Given that I didn’t make the decision to go to law school until my last year in college,
even then not being 100% certain, I felt behind with the whole process.” And you’ve got this really long post. I mean you put it out there. You’re not afraid to share how you felt and obviously you’re doing very well, so that’s part of the inspiration, as well. But what makes you want to share those types of things with other lawyers? Other women and even your followers who are potential clients or staying top of mind for?
Taly Goody: I just remember when I was going through the process, I felt like every time I asked a lawyer, “How do you like your job?” It was always, “Oh, don’t be a lawyer. I hate my life.” You know, all this negative chatter and so I decided, “You know what? I’m going to be the light because more people need that these days” and I felt like, “Hey, why not? I have the opportunity to share to women, to men.” It’s not just women. I try to be for anybody.
Adriana Linares: No, I know. I know.
Taly Goody: I think women gravitate towards me in a sense, but you know, I try to show them like, “Hey, if you’re going through a rough time, I’ve been there.” I try to be relatable
because I think that’s really important when you post on social media.
Adriana Linares: Yes. I don’t think you try. I think you just are, both of you, and I think that’s a lot of your personality and your persona on these sites, is you are both very genuine,
very likable and relatable. I mean, you don’t even have to try, it just happens.
Taly Goody: I mean I think that’s the most important thing is to be relatable, to be authentic
and you know, to go to like — you know when you’re posting, you don’t want to always post, “Hey, I’m a personal injury lawyer.” You want to show more about you like, “Let’s be a storyteller about your life and what.” And I always think when I’m posting things, I want to provide value to the community. You know, it’s not like I want to just post to say, “Hey, look at me. I’m so cool.” I want to be like, “This is what I’m providing to you” you know what I mean?
Adriana Linares: Yeah. Yeah. What about you Michelle? You do the same thing. You really put yourself out there and share and say, “Hey, you’re not the only one that’s struggling. We’ve all struggled.” And I agree with Taly that hearing that is always important, but what makes you want to put it out there too?
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: I think it’s just my own personal experience as a younger female, Latina attorney — lawyers just kind of suffer in silence, but when — especially we have these women’s roundtables with Justice HQ where everyone is just completely honest about the disrespect, they got at court that day or just these struggles of, “Oh, you can’t wear
That. You can’t wear skirts. You can’t wear shorts. Like why aren’t you wearing pants or wear certain colors. Do your makeup a certain way.” Like we all go through these struggles and trying to find our identity in a very conservative industry. So, I felt a lot of just relief being able to talk about it with the other women of Justice HQ. So, I decided to take kind of that message and that openness to social media to say, “Look, we all go through this. It’s okay,
You’re not alone.” But there is strength in knowing that you’re not the only one going through
This, so hopefully that gives people a little bit more confidence to really live their truth or to stand up for themselves if they do end up in these situations.
Adriana Linares: It’s so nice to hear. I mean it’s always so nice to hear positive thoughts, but two, I this is something I talk about a lot having been doing this for a really long time and I only work with lawyers, right? I only know lawyers. I live with a lawyer. It’s lawyers all day for me and the one thing I know is, when you are practicing an area of law that you love, that you’re passionate about, you’re going to be a happier lawyer and I see both of you obviously doing that. Taly, what makes a good video on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube. Like what are the elements that you would say make a good video?
Taly Goody: So, like I kind of mentioned earlier, the number one thing you want to think about when you’re posting a video or anything, whether it’s a photo, video, you want to know what is this video, what’s the purpose of this video? Is it providing humor? Is it providing
relatable content? Is it educational? Those are the top three things you want to post about, relatable, educational, funny. And then you also want to say, “Okay, it’s providing value in some way in those three categories.” Like I also mentioned, authenticity is so important, like you don’t want to be out there pretending to be somebody else because it’s going to show through that video that it’s not you. You’re being somebody that you’re not and people are going to be turned off by that. So, you want to keep it your style in whatever way that is and I think people will appreciate that. Like, “Oh, that’s funny. I’ve never seen a video like that
before.” So, I think those are the main important things. And also, consistency with posting is very important. It’s not like, “I’m going to post one video a month and be done.” Like, “I’m sorry, you’re not going to really”
Adriana Linares: You’re not getting anywhere, it’s kind of like blogging.
Taly Goody: Yeah.
Adriana Linares: It really is. It’s content, content, content. Michelle, what are your suggestions for what makes for a good video or a good post?
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: So, I agree with Taly, I think the number one thing is you want to provide value and my top two ways is I either want to educate or I want to entertain and I think that the best ones do both. I try to make sure everything that I put out there falls under one of those categories or both of them, and I think it’s worked out pretty well and just be authentic, be genuine because realistically, this is your advertising and you’re talking to your consumers. So, if you’re not being yourself, you’re not going get your ideal client. But if you are being yourself, you’re more likely to attract that client that you are going to get along with and you are going to be able to serve, and be able to work with for the length of whatever that case may be. So, it just really validates. You need to put yourself out there and be yourself and it will all come back to you in a positive way.
Adriana Linares: Very sage advice, very wise. Any suggestions for what not to do when you’re posting to social media? Bad videos, bad content, bad posts, what have you seen that you’ve been like, “Oh, cringe.”
Taly Goody: I am trying to think.
Adriana Linares: Michelle, have you thought of anything that’s been cringe-worthy?
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Just spammy stuff, like where you can’t even tell who the attorney is, you know how is that relatable? It’s just talking in the third person and I personally, I made that mistake at the beginning because I tried to be like the other law firms
and so, I would talk in third person like, “Oh, our managing partner, Michelle Fonseca, come on in.”
Adriana Linares: You’re like?
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Out like just — I don’t know if I can curse, but something terrible and it hurt to put out there and so I finally, I kind of listened to my gut and was like, “This isn’t going to work. This doesn’t feel good.”
Adriana Linares: It’s not you.
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Yeah, and so I decided to kind of make that jump and I remember at the beginning, it was scary as hell putting videos out there because there’s trolls out there.
Adriana Linares: Sure.
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: I mean there’s no way around that, but there’s also a lot of good people you’re going to be able to help and the only way to really do that is to put yourself out there. So, it gets easier with time as the second thing. The first, you just have to get content out there and the more you do it, the more consistent you are. I try to post three times a week at a minimum. So, the more videos you do, the more natural you will be and especially as lawyers, half of our jobs are to talk. So, you putting yourself out there and explaining your area of law is only going to make you a better attorney, because if you can explain it in 30 seconds or less, you know that law better than anyone else. So, it helps you in your practice as well, it’s not just the social media. It’s actually making you a better attorney.
Adriana Linares: So smart. Do you get trolled and do you get mean comments?
Taly Goody: Yeah.
Adriana Linares: How do you handle that? Tell us, because I’m sure there’s — I would die. I’d be like, “Delete and block, you bitch. You jerk.”
Taly Goody: I know you want those negative comments because that’s what drives traction to your page. So, when you start getting trolls, it’s bittersweet because you start seeing these people like, “Why are they writing such mean things about me?”
Adriana Linares: Yeah.
Taly Goody: But then you’re like, “All right keep doing it, I’m going to get more traction on my page.”
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: I guess it’s like anything else. It’s just a social setting and you have to ignore the mean girls and the mean guys.
Taly Goody: It’s usually mean guys for me.
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: And you don’t let it get to you.
Taly Goody: Yeah, it’s just hard not to that witty come back all the time because I just die inside. I’m just like, “I need to say something.”
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: And then you can’t. You’re like, “I will be the bigger person here, jerk.”
Taly Goody: Exactly.
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: I mean it is sort of like — and I imagine, it’s a lot like the guy sitting behind you in the third grade that would pull your ponytails, right? Like you just kind
of go, “Ugh, I know it’s because you love me, jerk.”
Adriana Linares: No, you guys, this is so interesting and it’s been such a great conversation. You’re inspirational. You’re both just absolutely lovely and wise beyond your years. I really appreciate you taking the time to come and talk to us. Before I let you go, Michelle, tell everybody all the platforms. Give us all your social media handles.
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: All right, so it’s pretty easy, West Coast Lemons, you can find me on LinkedIn, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram. My website is westcoastlemons.com. You can find all of my information on there.
Adriana Linares: Did you manage to get the same handle across all platforms? Because I’ve got them in such chunks and pieces that sometimes it’s LawTech, sometimes it’s LawTech Partners. So, I couldn’t get consistent, but is yours consistent all the way across?
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: I’m really sure it is and I think if you just Google West Coast Lemons, it tends to just auto populate all of my social media stuff anyway.
Adriana Linares: So that’s also really powerful too. I mean what you said is powerful. You’ve worked on this content. You’ve created a name for yourself inside these platforms, but Google recognizes all that too. So, you can very easily say “West Coast Lemons and you’ll find me.” What about you Taly, what are your handles and what stories do you have to tell about those?
Taly Goody: Yeah, so I have my Instagram. I have two accounts. So, it’s my personal one is @talygoodyesq and my business is @goodylawgroup. And then my TikTok is my Instagram name for my personal account @talygoodyesq. I think my YouTube is goodylawgroup and
I have a Facebook account that links to Goody Law Group Instagram. LinkedIn is the same thing Goody Law Group and then my name.
Adriana Linares: It’s hard to remember them too because you never actually look at them. You just log in and there you go.
Taly Goody: Right.
Adriana Linares: It’s funny. I have to look all the time. Usually, I have to go to my website and hit the social links to grab them, so lazy. Anyway, thank you both so much and I want
everyone who’s listening to go and follow these two absolutely lovely, smart, brilliant lawyers on all their on social media platforms. Reach out to them. Let them know you heard about them on New Solo and be inspired by them. It’s really clever and creative and modern and I
love hearing that it works and I love hearing that you both are so happy and pleased with your practices that you chose, and it’s been really nice. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Taly Goody: Thank you so much for having me.
Michelle Fonseca-Kamana: Thanks so much, I had a great time.
Adriana Linares: All right, well we’ve reached the end of another great episode of New Solo on the Legal Talk Network. That was a great conversation. Please connect with us at legaltalknetwork.com/newsolo. Make sure you subscribe. Tell your friends about this podcast and give us a good rating if you appreciate New Solo. See you next month.
Notify me when there’s a new episode!
|Published:||April 15, 2021|
|Category:||Marketing for Law Firms , Practice Management|
New Solo covers a diverse range of topics including transitioning from law firm to solo practice, law practice management, and more.