Decamping to Puerto Rico

Episode Notes

Transcript

New Solo

Decamping to Puerto Rico

03/11/2021

 

Adriana Linares: Before we get started with today’s episode, I want to make sure and thank our sponsors. Alert Communications, LAWCLERK, Clio, and Abby Connect.

 

[Music]

 

Intro: So, if I was starting today as a new solo, I would do something — the entrepreneurial — you have to communicate that and figure out what your new plan is — we have to change the way they’re practicing — wish that they’ve done it earlier — do that by organize — what it means to be fulfilled — make it easy to work with — becoming a leader — new approach, new tools, new mindset, new solo — and it’s making that leap.

 

Adriana Linares: It’s time for another episode of New Solo on Legal Talk Network. I’m Adriana Linares, a legal technology trainer and consultant. I’m your host. I love helping lawyers and law firms use technology better. My guest today is Sarah de Diego. Hi, Sarah!

 

Sarah de Diego: Hi!

 

Adriana Linares: It’s so nice to meet you. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to chat with me. You are a bit of an unusual guest for me because I feel like most of the time, I have some relationship even if it’s third party removed from my guests, you and I literally do not know each other. I hit you up out of nowhere on LinkedIn because I was presented with an article about you picking up your practice and deciding to follow your dreams I guess that’s what we’re going to learn about to Puerto Rico. So, I just thought that sounded like such a great story and as I have mentioned to you, I love talking to lawyers who take their practices to where they want and form them into the dream practice that I hope you’re going to end up telling us about.

 

So, why don’t we start by you just introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about your background and your area of law that you practice in?

 

Sarah de Diego: Okay, like you said, my name is Sarah de Diego and I’ve been practicing for 15 years prior to moving to Puerto Rico, that was all spent in California, in Santa Monica, actually. I went to law school at Pepperdine Law School and then stayed not very far from there.

 

I represent companies who engage in online advertising and technology, so companies who send you emails with ads or banner ads or video ads, things like that that you see online including the annoying marketing and the marketing you like, a little bit of everything, and then a lot of companies that do online technology platform services that have something to do with online advertising.

 

I started out my practice working in business litigation at a couple of firms in LA and didn’t really like it. I liked the litigation part, I didn’t really like the being at the bigger firm, wasn’t very much fun to put it nicely, it wasn’t fun at all and I was able to go in-house for a company that was doing email marketing back in 2007 and that’s how I got into this industry.

 

After a couple of years, I saw there was really a need for lawyers to represent companies in this industry doing online advertising is there just really wasn’t a lot of others doing it, so I started my own firm in 2009.  From there, grew my practice and moved to Puerto Rico like you said in 2018 and have moved my practice here, which is obviously very different.

 

Adriana Linares: Yeah, I’d say. I’m glad you told me about how you got into that area of law because that was going to be one of my questions for you. So, I think that’s really interesting. You took an in-house gig, which, of course, for a lot of lawyers an in-house gig is a whole other conversation I could have because the dynamics of working for a large firm changes, right? You probably didn’t have to track your time and bill it and I’m sure it was, especially working for a tech company, probably a lot more casual than what you were used to.

 

I certainly hear you about how large law firms — you know, they’re just not for everybody and I think a lot of either guests I’ve had or listeners that I know are listening to the show or of course attorneys that I’ve met with over the years and I’ve been doing this for 20 years, so I know a lot of lawyers. You’re either built for a big law firm or you’re not and if you’re not, it is the most soul-sucking spirit-crushing experience and I know because I started my career at one of Florida’s largest law firms and then went to another one of Florida’s largest law firms and I’m not even a lawyer. So, I don’t blame you at all. I actually applaud you for recognizing that that was just not going to be a good fit for you. I’m sure your mental health was suffering and you ended up with this cool gig that then led you down this other path and I think that’s so great.

 

So, when you looked around the landscape and saw that there wasn’t a lot of attorneys filling this new market need, you jumped on it right away it sounds like?

 

(00:05:00)

 

Sarah de Diego: Yeah, I started in 2009, so I had been doing it for a while, had made a number of contacts in the industry from what I was doing, so it was pretty easy to get clients when I left and we actually have — most of our clients I’ve had now for 10 plus years.

 

Adriana Linares: Oh, that’s great, yeah.

 

Sarah de Diego: Yeah, most of the companies I took on when I first started, we still actually have. So, that’s been nice as well. My practice has kind of grown along with the advertising clients that we service.

 

Adriana Linares: Yeah, that’s great. When you started your own firm and wanted or just thought that you could focus on this particular area, were you true solo or did you launch with others?

 

Sarah de Diego: No, it was just me for a long time and then I started hiring law clerks from my old law school and then a couple of them, I hired after they graduated as associates and then they’ve moved on to other things and five years ago, I’ve been trying for many years to talk my best friend from law school into quitting. She also worked at a big firm and coming to work with me and in 2016 she agreed, so she joined me, which was fantastic because I had just actually had a baby. I have one son and it was definitely really — and I had just had one associate working for me and it was really tough trying to take time off to have a baby and having clients I didn’t want to lose and wanted to give them the same level of service, so that’s been really great.

 

I mean, I can’t say enough how great it’s been to be able to work with a friend and that’s been really great and then after I moved to Puerto Rico, I hired an associate here as well.

 

Adriana Linares: I guess we could probably have a whole conversation, I’ve had a couple of guests about this in deciding to form a practice with a best friend. I mean, that can go in either direction, right? It could either be, “Oh, it’s the worst mistake we made. Turns out we’re good friends but we couldn’t work together.” But it sounds like for you, here we are what’s it, about four years later, sounds like the two of you have really made it work and she is not in Puerto Rico, is that correct?

 

Sarah de Diego: No, she’s in Texas.

 

Adriana Linares: Great!

 

Sarah de Diego: She actually had moved back there after law school and so she stayed in Texas. I mean, it’s worked out really well. I don’t know if we’ve ever had an argument.

 

Adriana Linares: That’s great!

 

Sarah de Diego: Yeah! I lucked out on that one because you’re right, lots of people who try to work together, it just doesn’t work out very well.

 

Adriana Linares: So, are you licensed in California only and is she Texas only or do you each have multi-jurisdictional practices?

 

Sarah de Diego: So, she’s licensed in Texas. I’m licensed in California, Colorado, and Nevada. I have not attempted to get licensed in Puerto Rico because the territorial court system here is in Spanish and my Spanish is honestly not that good. So, I don’t really have any intention of practicing here in Puerto Rico because I would fail miserably at it.

 

Adriana Linares: The Spanish part, not at the law part.

 

Sarah de Diego: Yes, the Spanish part would not do so well. Well, they have a very — I don’t honestly know that much about Puerto Rican laws because they’re very different than the States. A lot of it I think is based on like the Spain’s legal system, so not interested in that and also, Puerto Rico is not very tech heavy.

 

Adriana Linares: Right, you wouldn’t have clients there.

 

Sarah de Diego: Yeah, there’s not a lot of it here.

 

Adriana Linares: I guess the moral of the story here is you can run your practice from anywhere and live wherever you like because your clients are tech savvy, tech enabled and I’m assuming that technology is an important part of you being able to live and work in Puerto Rico, your partner being in Texas and then your clients being likely across the country?

 

Sarah de Diego: Yeah, we actually have clients around the world. We have clients in Europe, the UK, Canada and then obviously a lot in the States. The clients in other places do advertising in the states and so that’s why we help them and specifically California. California is probably the state with the most laws that impact online advertising, so most everything we do is very heavy on California. So, that’s how we can kind of have clients everywhere. But to your question, yes, we use tech in everything. When the pandemic hit, nothing changed in our practice because we were already doing it and had been — even when I moved here, nothing really changed in our practice. All of our clients, like you said, being tech savvy were used to talking to us on Zoom or Skype, Skype really more than Zoom. Over Skype, usually it’s by chatting, email, telegram, you name it, just depends where they are, what they use.

 

(00:10:00)

 

So, we were already used to having a completely online practice well before I moved or the pandemic hit.

 

Adriana Linares: Wow! That’s amazing. It gives me so much hope to hear stories like this. I feel like I spend a lot of time helping lawyers get to the point where they’re cloud-based, cloud comfortable and believe that the clients are not going to leave them just because they might be practicing from their home, which the pandemic has certainly made that completely a null and void conversation for the most part.

 

Hey, before we go on, let’s take a quick break and listen to a couple messages from some sponsors.

 

[Music]

 

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[Music]

 

All right, it’s time for New Insights. We’re going to hear question number three from Robert Southwell to Eric Ganci and I want to make sure and thank Nota by M&T Bank for their support of this segment. To learn more, visit trustnota.com. Terms and conditions may apply.

 

[Music]

 

Today, we’ve got Robert’s third question.

 

Robert Southwell: I was told in order to become more skilled at voir dire jury selection, it’s something I’ve never done without co-counsel, you have to watch and observe attorneys do it which you can’t really do in these times, so what are some suggestions you have as far as learning a little bit and educating yourself on the voir dire process for young attorneys?

 

Eric Ganci: Jury selection is one of the most interesting, exciting parts of trial. You can practice jury selection every single day by just talking to people. People like the general person that you’re talking to at the grocery store, walking around, walking their dog, your Uber driver once we can Uber again safely post COVID, like those are the types of people that are going to be sitting on your jury. So, if you have an issue that you’re really chewing on or you have an issue that you don’t know how to talk about it or how to do a jury selection piece on it, just talk to people and you want to talk to people that are going to be really honest with you, so either strangers can be great or friends and family that are going to be really, really honest with you or find someone that you think that are really going to dislike your position because that can be a really eye-opening experience of when you’re doing voir dire and you ask a question about something and someone’s like, “I hate your position. I hate your client. I think you look stupid.” Because that’s what can happen sometimes. Jury selection can catch on fire real quick.

 

So, just get out there and talk to people. Other organizations that can maybe talk to this was a suggestion by another friend of mine but I stole it is go to like nursing homes or other types of communities where people have like larger groups, have more time, that typically are like people who are elder in age, talk with them and those people that have that much experience in their life many times are going to have lots of opinions as to what are going to happen and a lot of times, people that are older they may be people that are serving in your jury anyway, so they could be good people to talk to.

 

On the complete flip side, also talking to younger generations, so I would say like collegiate organizations or groups like maybe seeing if you can come talk to like groups of people or boards, law school organizations like that kind of stuff, voir dire is just so much about talking to people, generally just talking to people. So, if you can get practice talking to people, then that’s a great start and maybe just start one-on-one talking to a friend that you know is not going to just agree with you because they love you to pieces, have someone that’s going to be very honest with you and see about having that honest conversation with them about your case.

 

(00:15:00)

 

Adriana Linares: Thanks so much to Eric Ganci and Robert Southwell for participating in New Insights. We’re going to listen to some messages from some sponsors now.

 

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[Music]

 

All right. We’re back. I’m talking to Sarah de Diego, a California attorney who is based in Puerto Rico and I am going to get to the bottom of that in just a few minutes.

 

Sarah, a couple more questions for you. How about your basic technology infrastructure, how do you and your partner communicate, exchange messages, are you Macs, are you PCs, what do you use for practice management? Give us an idea of what your tech stack looks like?

 

Sarah de Diego: Two of us use Macs and then the third uses a PC. We’re pretty simple. We have a chat on Skype. We talk to each other in there. I’d like to say that we have regular phone calls but we really don’t. It’s probably something we should be better about but —

 

Adriana Linares: Well, when there’s no need, there’s no need like why force it if you can get everything done through chat and through regular work.

 

Sarah de Diego: Yeah, I think it’s actually a lot more efficient to — I mean, not I think. I’m positive it’s incredibly more efficient to just chat and ask questions that way than having phone calls because it takes a long time. On the other hand, you miss the personal connection of chatting with each other, which you don’t get when you’re chatting through Skype, but it is a lot more efficient.

 

So, we use Skype. We use Dropbox. Dropbox has a lot of great features for — you can edit documents at the same time, you can work on projects at the same time, so we do use Dropbox. For practice management, we recently switched to TimeSolv a couple of months ago. So far, it’s a little more simplistic than some other systems we’ve used but I like it and their customer service is just absolutely fantastic. They’re training, their customer service has been the best of any of the ones that we’ve used and we’ve used a few. So, we’ve been happy with that so far.

 

Adriana Linares: Yeah, that’s great. TimeSolv is — I’m glad you mentioned that in case someone hears this because if you look at many of our modern practice management programs, they offer a lot. They have a lot of features and then for some attorneys, it’s overkill and I’m not saying that they are for you, but it sounds like you found a product that works and TimeSolv is a little more basic, more simple but you still manage to capture your time, get your bills out, manage contacts in there, so I think it’s a really nice solution.

 

I don’t mention it very often because I don’t often get guests that use it but I’ve had a lot of clients that use it. I think it’s a nice product and it’s affordable too and they recently announced an integration with NetDocuments, so for my regular listeners who know how much I love NetDocuments, TimeSolv is now integrating with them, so that’s a plus for TimeSolv as well.

 

Well, that’s really cool, so you’ve got a decent tech stack, you guys can communicate, work well together and it sounds like your clients are fine with all the technology you use and you guys probably collaborate with them very easily when you need to, I would take it?

 

Sarah de Diego: Yes, very easy to do. We do a lot of you know contract negotiations, revisions, redlining documents for our clients and very easy to send things that way. A lot of our regular clients have their own systems that they use internally, so one thing that we struggle a little bit with is having to use a lot of our client systems. A lot of them have their own company project management systems that we have to use, so we use a lot of different ones for different clients.

 

Adriana Linares: Yeah, so they give you a login and access to whatever system they’re using and then you’ll just log in as you work on that project with them. That’s pretty neat. That gives you exposure to a lot of systems.

 

Sarah de Diego: Yeah, so like I use Asana for one client, so we use so many different ones, so that gets challenging a little bit just because of having to log in to all these different systems or for clients, a lot of our clients use Slack, which is great for chats, so we’re you know in multiple Slack for different clients. It can get a little bit, but you get used to it.

 

(00:20:04)

 

Adriana Linares: And honestly, let’s think about how much harder practicing law would have been 10 or 12 years ago without those tools and just having to log in and out of different Slack accounts. Gosh, it’s not the worst thing you could have to do in a day.

 

Sarah de Diego: Yeah, there’s definitely much worse things. When I first started representing clients who did tech, what was really hard for me was — first, just figuring out what it was that they were doing. That was definitely a challenge, but also just changing my ways of communicating because when you work at a firm, especially back then, phone calls, you’re having meetings, you’re faxing things, you’re emailing things by switching to this, I had clients they wanted to talk on like instant message and Skype and text message and all these different things and nobody wanted to come to my office really and see me unless it was for lunch.

 

I have wonderful clients who I’m very good friends with after all these years and they’d come by because there was a good taco shop by my office but not really for work, so it was definitely a challenge to get used to communicating in a different way, which is by communicating online, I mean the nice thing is I was really set up for the pandemic though about 10 years in advance.

 

Adriana Linares: That’s so awesome. Your practice was pandemic-proof before you needed to be. Quick question I thought of sort of sidetracked but not really and that is being distributed the way you and your partner are and your clients being all over the world, how do you get new clients or do you market specifically for new clients or is it word of mouth and you haven’t really had to do a lot of marketing or advertising?

 

Sarah de Diego: So, we don’t really do any advertising or marketing and in fact, actually, our website hasn’t worked in years which is really funny for being a tech lawyer. My clients tease me about this often.

 

Adriane Linares: Sure, you’re like, “Wait, I’m the best kept secret. That’s why. You can’t even find my website.”

 

Sarah de Diego: When I first started my practice, I spoke in a lot of industry conferences, did a lot of compliance training, which I love doing and I do still do that, some, I kind of cut back when I had my son just the practicality of leaving the baby at home and then now obviously, we have the pandemic but I do still speak at conferences and stuff. So, that was a good way to get my name out there originally, but like I said, most of our clients we’ve had since I started my practice or shortly thereafter and we might take on a couple one or two new clients a year, but we really don’t take on much simply because our clients we like them and they stay around and we try to be kind of select the clients that we take on with the goal of having them for a really long time.

 

Adriana Linares: Yeah, that’s such a good thing to hear and especially when I have new lawyers. They think when you’re starting out, you can’t imagine ever turning down clients or having enough clients, that’s just not something that’s baked into a lawyer’s brain, but when you get to that point and it’s comfortable like you just said, we’ve got the right number of clients, I mean unless you’re looking to grow and not every lawyer or small firm is, that’s such a special gift to have in long-term clients that you like and they like you and you’re not scrambling for new clients all the time and I guess another thing to point out there just to state the obvious is you take on the types of clients and matters that have a very long shelf life. So, if you’re a personal injury attorney or a criminal defense attorney, those matters tend to have really short life spans and then that’s why they’re always hunting for new clients. But areas like yours, it sounds great, so I’m happy to hear all those things.

 

The last thing I want to ask you about is what I’ve been most curious about which is why Puerto Rico and how did you decide to do that and did you have your son in Puerto Rico or before you went?

 

Sarah de Diego: Before I went.

 

Adriana Linares: Okay, so, what was that like just from a family decision and how’d you do it?

 

Sarah de Diego: Well, with packing a lot of suitcases is practically how we did it. So, I love to travel. That’s what I like to do probably more than anything other than sit on the beach but I love traveling. I would like to see every country in the world before I die, not sure that’s going to happen because I’m only about halfway there and the pandemic has definitely gotten in the way of my goals but we do already a lot of traveling and I’ve been in Santa Monica for a long time, about 15 years or so I think and was kind of looking for a change thinking about just you know doing other things. My husband works in film, so LA is kind of where we had stayed and I had a couple of clients actually who — I got the idea from Puerto Rico from a client.

 

(00:25:02)

 

A couple of my clients actually had moved their businesses down here because Puerto Rico has a really good tax incentive program. If you move your business from the States to Puerto Rico, they have amazing tax incentives especially if you’re moving someone from California to Puerto Rico where if you’re from California, you know you pay a lot of taxes, so a lot of businesses have been moving down from the States to Puerto Rico under this tax program. It was called Act 2022. Now it’s called Act 60 basically if you move your business here, I mean there’s a lot that goes into it but the basic is that you pay a flat 4% corporate tax and then the owner doesn’t actually pay any further tax on the corporate gains, which is amazing.

 

Adriana Linares: Totally!

 

Sarah de Diego: Yes, and now every other lawyer who hears this will be like, “Wait a minute, I want to move to Puerto Rico!”

 

Adriana Linares: Right.

 

Sarah de Diego: I will say there’s plenty of room down here. It’s lovely. Everybody should come, so that’s where the idea came from. I had a couple of clients who had moved their businesses down and friends who moved their businesses down and I think 2018 around tax time came and as usual, I was very upset, middle of April, so we were taking a trip to the Dominican Republic actually for a client retreat and decided we’d come over to Puerto Rico afterwards, check it out, just kind of see because I mean just sounded amazing, huge difference though and then we came back again later in the year, found a place, went ahead, applied for the tax program. I moved my law firm here and we made the move, so it was a big move. I’ve been in Southern California my entire life. I grew up in Huntington Beach, went to college in San Diego, Law School in Malibu and then settled in Santa Monica, so it was a huge change, all of our families in the States. My Spanish is not fantastic anymore and it was a humongous change for us, but I love it.

 

Adriana Linares: I’m so glad. Who decided like between you and your husband, who was like, “How about Puerto Rico?” and then the other one go, “Yes!” I’m just curious like the dynamics or was it just kind of it sort of evolved and you said, “Well, sounds like a cool different idea and worst thing if we don’t like it, we move back.”

 

Sarah de Diego: I think it was more — I said we should do this because we were paying some probably large tax bill at the time and I was upset and I think probably my husband said something more like, “You’re crazy,” was probably — the conversation probably went more like that, but he also loves to travel and Puerto Rico is really nice. I mean, my view right now is of a really gorgeous beach, so that’s what I get to look at all day and Santa Monica is nice, we liked where we lived. It’s so nice here and the people are really nice. We moved, it was obviously a little scary, you don’t know anybody, we didn’t have any furniture, we moved into an empty — we had leased a place, moved in, it was empty, we couldn’t even find like furniture stores.

 

It was definitely a disaster when we first moved, complete disaster but we found it really quickly our neighbors are so nice, all of our neighbors are so nice and not just our neighbors, but everybody in Puerto Rico is so nice and helpful and they just go out of their way. It’s almost like — I never lived in a small town but it’s what I imagine a small town like in the US would be like where people actually help you if you look lost and people smile and wave and it’s very strange moving from LA. When we first moved here, I kept being suspicious like, “What do they want from me? Why are they smiling at me? Why are they saying hi to me? Do they want money? Like why are you being so nice?”

 

Adriana Linares: You’re like, “Holy shit, these people are actually just nice!”

 

Sarah de Diego: Yeah! They’re just nice for no reason. They’re just nice, very different than LA. That’s been great. My son goes to a really nice private school here which the prices are considerably better than LA. I have a gorgeous beach that I can walk downstairs to any time that’s really clean and nice. I mean, I really love it here and then obviously with the pandemic hitting, we’ve been so glad that we made the move when we did because now, everyone’s just at home anyways. And if you’re going to be home, can’t really go anywhere do anything, it’s nice to be able to at least walk out to the beach and have something right there to do.

 

Adriana Linares: And especially LA, I’m sure you have heard this whole time from all your friends that the lockdown there has been just the worst. I spend a lot of time in LA. We have a little crash pad in Hermosa Beach and it’s tough going there. It’s heavy lockdown there, Florida is the exact opposite. It’s just ridiculous like embarrassingly unrestricted.

 

(00:30:07)

 

And almost to where you definitely don’t feel safe walking around going into a restaurant in Florida, at least I don’t, so yes, I think Puerto Rico and a beach and a nice small town feel for a law practice sounds just dreamy, absolutely wonderful.

 

Well, I’m so glad that I connected with you and we could have this conversation and I think like I mentioned to you, my goal is always to inspire listeners to believe that they can have their practices just about anywhere. Obviously, it’s not 100% the case for all lawyers and practices but for so many, I know you can do it and you are living breathing proof that it can be done. Your dreams can come true and you can live in paradise and enjoy your practice, which is another thing that’s nice about talking to someone like you, Sarah. It sounds like you really like what you do and I think positioning yourself the way you have has made that the case and that’s inspiring too, so thank you so much for your time.

 

Sarah de Diego: Yeah, you’re welcome and yes, I love what I do. I love our clients, which has a lot to do with it. I don’t think it really matters what you do as long as you enjoy the people that you work with and I’m lucky we picked an area of law that made it so we could do it from anywhere, at least most the time we can do it from anywhere, obviously not every law practice can do that, but I also think that’s changing now. I’m hopeful that post pandemic, things will stay a little bit more fluid where people can work from home, they can maybe actually take vacations, they can just enjoy their life a little bit more than — in my opinion, there’s a lot more to life than going to work in an office 80 hours a week in a suit, so I’m glad that I was able to adapt my practice to wear a bathing suit instead.

 

Adriana Linares: I love it and I think that is an absolutely perfect way to end our program today. I want to make sure and thank Sarah de Diego so much for taking the time to chat with us today and thank you all for listening to New Solo on the Legal Talk Network. If you like what you’ve heard today, I would love for you to subscribe to New Solo on your favorite podcasting app. Give it a five-star rating. Go ahead, do it and we’ll see you next time. Remember, you’re not alone you’re a New Solo.

 

[Music]

 

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