Step by Step: How a Prominent Litigator Built Her High-Profile Career

Episode Notes

Transcript

Dave Scriven-Young:

Hello everyone, and welcome to Litigation Radio. I’m your host, Dave Scriven-Young. I’m a commercial and environmental litigator in the Chicago office of Peckar & Abramson, which is recognized as the largest law firm serving the construction industry with 115 lawyers and 11 offices around the us. On this show, we talk to the country’s top litigators and judges to discover best practices in developing our careers, winning cases, getting more clients, and building a sustainable practice. Please be sure to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting app to make sure that you’re getting updated with future episodes. This podcast is brought to you by the Litigation section of the American Bar Association. It’s where I make my home in the ABA. The Litigation section provides litigators of all practice areas, the resources we need to be successful advocates for our clients. Learn [email protected] slash Litigation. On today’s episode, we continue our tradition of delving into the stories and strategies of remarkable individuals who have been successful business developers as well as litigators who shape the legal landscape.

Today we’re thrilled to have Paula Hinton, who’s a partner in the Houston, Texas office of Winston and STR on the show today. She serves on the firm’s executive committee and is past chair and member of the Women’s Leadership Initiative and focuses on representing businesses in complex civil Litigation. She has representing clients in courtrooms across the country before administrative agencies and in international and domestic arbitration forms to resolve a wide variety of disputes, including those concerning contracts and general business issues, business torts, consumer disputes, environmental issues, trademark issues, trade sacred issues, and product liability matters among others. Paula is also a longtime leader in the ABA Litigation section. Welcome to the show, Paula.

Paula Hinton:

Thank you. Happy to be here.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Well, I know that you have a very interesting background. You grew up as the daughter of a lawyer, so tell us a little bit about growing up and tell us a little bit about your dad.

Paula Hinton:

Well, I grew up in North Alabama in Gadsden, Alabama, and my dad thought being a lawyer was the greatest honor and privilege anyone could ever have. He basically was a small city lawyer and judge in the surrounding communities who did a little bit of everything, criminal work, estate work, civil Litigation. But in his heart, he was a real trial lawyer. Dad handled a lot of pro bono matters when he passed away. They called him legal services in Gadsden, Alabama. Before there was legal services, he handled the death penalty case of Beck versus Alabama. He handled everything from small matters to large criminal matters, and in fact, every Sunday morning on the way to church, I would go with him to visit his clients in the county jail and I sit and eat biscuits with the trustees while he visited his clients. Then, and as was the day back when I was a little girl, I can remember also sitting in the judge’s lap while dad would try his cases. So I sort of grew up being scouted to his Atticus Finch.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Interesting. And what are some of the things that you learned as a child growing up, watching, going with your dad to these court hearings and to visit clients? What are some of the things that you learned from him? I

Paula Hinton:

Think the most important thing with my dad was watching how he treated people and everyone, the court, his clients opposing Counsel, he believed very much and taught us in life to be honest with everyone and be straight up with everyone and civil with everyone. So that’s what I really learned from him is being a good person and how that could play out in your representation. Unfortunately, he passed away at the peak of his career, but he loved what he did and is well remembered in the community for those that he helped.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Absolutely. Now my understanding, and you’re at Winston str, so you did not follow your dad’s footsteps in terms of practicing in a smaller community, but you went to big loss. So tell us what drew you to practice Litigation at large firms?

Paula Hinton:

Well, I can tell you my brother also became a lawyer and neither one of us had free will until we obtained our law degree from the University of Alabama. But dad did not want either of us to come practice law with him. He would always talk about the two briefcase experts and the white shoe law firms, and he wanted us to go for that training in the big firms. He had great respect for the level of practice the larger firms had, and he encouraged us to do federal clerkships and then go to a large firm for the experience and then we could decide what we wanted to be later in life.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Interesting. What are some of the things that you looked at when determining what firm you wanted to work with? I think you worked at a couple of different firms before going to Winston. Just curious, because I know that a lot of young lawyers looking for a job or thinking about what law firms they should be going to or applying to, what are some of the key requirements, at least in your mind, would be for a firm that you would be looking to work at?

Paula Hinton:

Well, I think the first thing I did was look at the community I wanted to work in, and that was where they had a high-end sophisticated commercial Litigation practice. Also, Dave, you’re too young to know, but this was also at a time that there weren’t very many women trial lawyers. When I finished law school in 1979, I came to Texas in 1981 after a fellowship in Spain studying international comparative law. Alabama at that point in time did not have very many women trial lawyers, and I looked at the southeast and the southwest to determine where was the best market for me as a woman to go and be able to practice commercial Litigation at a very high end. And it wasn’t very scientific. It was literally opening a Martindale Hubble and looking at some major law firms in Houston and sending some resumes out that got me to Houston, and my original firm was Vincent and Elkins. That’s how I got here looking for a place where I thought as a woman, trial lawyer, I had a chance of succeeding.

Dave Scriven-Young:

What was it like being one of the only women trial lawyers at a large firm? I mean, I’m sure it’s quite different now, but tell us about some of your experiences when you were getting your start.

Paula Hinton:

Well, it was lonely. There weren’t very many women ahead of us to be mentors, but I was fortunate in having a number of men at the firm who were very interested in my succeeding, but it was tough because you had a lot of others who were males who were there who some thought would be there for the long run and that you would get married, have children, and leave the practice of law, which did happen a lot in this market in the 1980s, but that was never something I intended to do. I wanted to have both and work toward having both. So it was basically walking into offices and asking to be put on those matters and to prove myself to the partners in the firm.

Dave Scriven-Young:

So what are some of the things that you did in order to make that balance or that goal achievable? Because large law firms are notorious for long hours and if you want to work on the best cases, a lot of FaceTime, at least pre pandemic. So what are some of the things that you did, perhaps a support system or whatever in order to reach that goal?

Paula Hinton:

Well, one thing I did and our current chair will tell you is I got rid of the word balance and I decided that all of us are basically trying to manage our life and our work and our personal lives as best we can. So I looked at it more as managing, and I also chose my husband. Well, I have a wonderful husband who has supported me in my career over the last 40 years as I supported and his changes in the business world. So it’s really about also not only the support you get from home, but the support you can get from others in keeping the wheels on and managing your life in a way to make it happen and you can’t have it all the time and you have to make choices and decisions. I probably made some wrong ones along the way, but I managed to hold it together and not be too hard on myself expecting that I would fail. I think I kept a positive outlook and was enthusiastic about my home life and my work life.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Yeah, I love that because I think a lot of people think about the word balance and certainly think about, well, if I had a perfect day, what would it look like? And for lawyers, I don’t know that there’s a perfect balance because sometimes you’re doing a trial or sometimes you’re not as busy and you can focus more on home and there are lots of other kind of things that go along and we’ll get to business development in a little bit, but balancing or attempting that balancing act is pretty difficult.

Paula Hinton:

It is for all of us, and that’s why I like to use the word manage it, manage that life of yours and be there for the things that are important in your child’s life and your partner’s life. Just show up. But we also, those of us who love what we do, want to continue to do it and do it at the highest level because it gives me my energy, it makes me happy, all of it makes me happy and surround yourself with good, positive people who help you keep your life moving forward. I always say no one likes to be around a curmudgeon or an eo,

Dave Scriven-Young:

So yeah. So let’s talk about some of your business development habits. Can you describe some of the habits that you think have made your career successful?

Paula Hinton:

Well, habits and things I strove for. I think one is raising your profile, making sure when you were younger that you were out and seen and that you developed a reputation for doing a job well. And then I think another skill is developing and sustaining relationships, identifying the people who you want to do that with and then figuring out within your work and in your life how you make those pieces come together.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Let’s delve into each of those in a little bit of detail. So you talked about raising your profile not only in terms of getting your name out there and being seen, but also doing good work. So what are some tips that you might provide terms of just being seen and getting out there? I mean a lot of lawyers I think would prefer to stay in the office and work on briefs and have fun in that regard, but what are some ways that you like to see lawyers and the way that you’ve raised your profile?

Paula Hinton:

I think the beginning, how I started raising my profile was involvement in local nonprofit work and then involvement in theBar, Association. And when I say involvement in theBar associations, whether it’s local, state or national, like the ABA is really getting involved and figuring out what sections or committees or communities you want to be involved in to make a difference. So I think what I did was basically join and participate in various activities that I wanted to do and that surrounded me with people I wanted to associate with. And that can lead to writing and speeches and just exposure where your name gets recognized and within the firm. I think what’s important too is raising your hand and telling the senior partners who do the type of work you want to do that you want to do it with them, show up at their door and volunteer to work on the next case they have. Don’t wait for them to find you. You go find them.

Dave Scriven-Young:

That’s really interesting. So let’s unpack that a little bit. You talked about Barbara Association work and getting involved there. I know that you’re a longtime member and leader in the Litigation section of the ABA. Tell us a little bit about how the section has been critical to, or at least a pathway to your success.

Paula Hinton:

Happy to do that. And Dave, one of the interesting things about that is people were asking me to be more involved in the ABA leadership for many, many years, but I said I could not do it at that time because of the age of my son and his activities and my practice at that point in time. So this goes back to choosing the right time to step it up into some of these activities that require more time and maybe more travel. But that’s how I got involved with this group originally of women in the ABA from the Woman Advocate Committee where we took the woman advocate committee and started growing it and expanding its reach. And that was my first step. And then after that it was more committee work, Division director work, and then working on special task forces for the chairs that came at various times. And through these groups and friendships I’ve established, we have an informal referral network among the leadership in the ABA that has served me well and others in the group. Well, meeting these people that you can trust implicitly and they actually become like your independent board of directors of this group that doesn’t work with you day in and day out, but can help you advance your career.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Yeah, it’s interesting that you say that because a lot of people when they think about the ABA suggest, well, it’s a national organization, how can I possibly get cases from them or from anyone within that organization? It’s just too big and I’m going to get lost in the shuffle. What I’ve found, and this is true not only in the Litigation section but also I came up through the young lawyers Division, was you really find your people. The great thing about a large organization is that you’ll find people of varying backgrounds, various practices, and you’ll find people that you want to hang around with and that you enjoy spending time with. And certainly those will be the people that will help you because you’re enjoying time spent together, you develop your tribe within the larger organization and you’re doing work together and you enjoy it. And so therefore those referrals will come as a result. I mean, I assume that’s what you found.

Paula Hinton:

Well, that’s true. And what you also find too is identifying those people within the ABA and elsewhere that you want to hang around with. A good bit of my business today is coming from women and men. I met through the ABA that are now holding in-house Counsel positions and are currently CLOs of major corporations, which when I met them 20 years ago, they may have been a third year associate at a major law firm, but you identify those people as you call them, I think your people, and now they are in positions of power to hand out work. And over that time period, I built up trust with them to know they are taken care of if they come to me for assistance in their work and in their cases, and they do, and that’s amazing to me. But it is in these organizations, it’s a long-term play.

Dave Scriven-Young:

It’s a long-term play. And then also something you said before I think was key was you have to show up and be willing to raise your hand and to do work and be willing to go to those cocktail receptions when you’d rather just stay in your room and just go into that golf outing or to that dance or whatever the social event is for the conference that you’re going to. You really have to be willing to put in that time in order to develop those relationships.

Paula Hinton:

And even the quiet moments, it breaks where you can spend an hour with someone downstairs at the hotel listening to them. And I think listening is a major part of business development. There may be somebody that you meet with for an hour and you want their work and you want to talk about their work, but you hear that they’re having a hard time finding a dentist or a painter or a plumber. And if you can start solving problems for people, even on that small level and instead of talking about yourself, be listening to them and what they needs are, whether they’re personal needs or professional needs, that’s how you develop trust and relationships.

Dave Scriven-Young:

So smart. Okay, so let’s talk about the second tip or habit. You talked about developing relationships. So what are some of the ways, when we talked about bar associations obviously, and you’re developing relationships and those associations, what are some other ways that you develop relationships?

Paula Hinton:

Well, a funny thing about that, Dave, is while my dad taught me honesty with court Counsel and clients, he didn’t work with anyone else. But what I have found is how you treated your associates in your law firms has been critically important. One of the areas where I have gotten some of the biggest cases of my life have been from former associates of mine, I guess, and I may not have been conscious of it at the time I treated them right, and I listened to them and I helped them when they moved on to another law firm and then ultimately to an in-house position. I think back to relationships and developing relationships and sustaining them is important because you don’t know when it’ll come back to you.

Dave Scriven-Young:

That is so profound to me because I’ve been at a couple of firms and certainly have seen various different types of partners over the years, some of which have a harsher attitude on associates and others. But certainly as I’ve moved from firm to firm, the relationships that I’ve kept up with are the partners that treated me right over the years. And certainly if I’m in a position to refer a case, it’s going to be to someone who treated me much better than someone who didn’t, even if I got great training from a yeller partner or somebody who may have treated me bad, but at the same time, I learned a lot from, I’m not really going to refer that person business. So certainly what you’re saying really hits home to me, and it makes total sense at large law firms where you see people going in-house all the time, certainly they’re going to be in a position to refer their business to folks and they’re going to refer it to you if you treated people right.

Paula Hinton:

Well, more importantly, when you’re building your team and your law firm, how you treated people also helps you be able to attract the best talent you want for moving forward. Let’s say if you change law like I did as an example, two examples, by the way, two individuals who are active in ABA leadership. Now were young first year associates working with me at Vincent and Elkins, and they now work with me as partners at Winston str, Michael Murphy and Ahad Khan. Both of those gentlemen I’ve known since they were brand new lawyers, but I kept a relationship with them and now I’m able to work with them here and we trust each other over the years, which helps service our clients better. So how you treat people and identifying those people you want to work with inside the firm and outside the firm impacts your life remarkably on the quality of how you live and the trust you can have and the service you can provide to your clients.

Dave Scriven-Young:

So let’s go over some of the other tips on how to develop relationships that will help you to succeed. I know one of them is taking people out for breakfast, so tell me more about that.

Paula Hinton:

Well, I knew you would come up with this or ask about this at some point today, and that is one of the things that for 30 years I have done at least two to three times a week. Those of us who have children, our days are packed. We know that’s true for others. So what I learned early on was I picked a breakfast place and for the last 20 to 30 years, I have used that breakfast place as my major business development and personal life get togethers during the week. It’s easy. People have not gotten caught up in their workdays, they’re not dragging themselves out to lunch, and they’re angry that they’re leaving their desk at their corporate office, and you catch them at a better time. And as I said before, it’s also a better time to listen. That’s when people are most relaxed. If they can just sit down for breakfast, have a good discussion, and know you’re there for them, and then they can go off to work. You’ve made their day start better. So I’ve had a lot of people sort of roll their eyes at the thought of doing business development breakfast, but it has served me well and resulted in not only finally talking Michael and Ahad to come work with me here at Winston, but also in business development over the years to keep the relationships going. So try it. It’s really effective.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Well, I’m going to ask more questions because breakfast is my favorite meal of the day and certainly favorite meal to eat out. So it sounds like you go to the same breakfast place every time.

Paula Hinton:

I do.

Dave Scriven-Young:

What time do you schedule these meetings?

Paula Hinton:

Usually they’re scheduled at the client’s request sometime between seven 30 and eight 30. Often it’s after people have gotten up, done their workout or drop their kids at school. There’s the centrally located place that I meet them, and I have the same thing I order every time. So I’m sort of, if I were a drinker, it would be cheers walking into theBar, but here it’s breakfast and they have my regular food ready to go. So I’m all focused on the individual.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Do you send out an agenda or something like that beforehand or is it just, Hey, I want to come out, let’s meet for breakfast. We haven’t seen each other in a while, let’s catch up sort of thing.

Paula Hinton:

The latter. It is totally that, but I did in the past, I’m not as good at it as I was, keep a tickler to remind myself how long it’s been since I’ve seen someone. I used to be very meticulous about keeping Sarah Holts, the business development guru would say, put slips of paper, have a folder, or now you can set up the alerts on your computer calendar is have it ding you on Tuesday and say, you need to email Joe and set up breakfast with him next week at barnaby’s. But you have to be systematic because otherwise we’ll have our heads down and we won’t get it done. So setting up a reminder system that every couple of days you get a reminder that you need to reach out to someone to set up breakfast is what I did and do

Dave Scriven-Young:

Alright. Well enough about breakfast. I think I have a new business development habit that I would love to start up, so thank you for that. As we wrap up here, what other kind of relationship building habits or tips might you have for our listeners today?

Paula Hinton:

Well, I think with younger partners and associates, what I would do is tell them to identify the people you want to hang with. Identify who those people are that you would want to go to the theater or the movie with and start developing stronger relationships with them, develop those relationships and sustain them. Many of my largest cases have been from people that I met decades ago who ultimately became the CLOs of Fortune 100 companies and I didn’t know that’s what was going to happen with them in the future, but I identified people in our profession that I had great respect for, that I liked to be around, and who apparently at some level liked to be around me too to build that relationship of trust. So I would just keep in mind it’s a long-term play and you don’t have to kiss the frogs to get a prince. You can actually get people you like out who you’ve identified from social activities and working with them that become future stars.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Amazing. Paula, thank you so much for being on the show today. This has really been wonderful just to hear your stories and to listen to the tips that have made you successful over the years. We’d love to have you back on the show. Any kind of final thoughts for our listeners today as we depart?

Paula Hinton:

Nothing more than just as I tell my family, you B you and look for those people who want to hang around you and develop those relationships.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Wonderful. Well, Paul Hinton from Winston str, thank you so much for being on the show today. I really do appreciate

Paula Hinton:

It. Thank you, Dave. I enjoyed it.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Thank you to disco for sponsoring Litigation Radio Disco makes the law work better for everyone with cutting edge solutions that leverage AI, cloud computing and data analytics to help legal professionals accelerate e-discovery and document review. Learn [email protected]. And now it’s time for our quick tip from the ABA Litigation Section. So let’s welcome back Darryl Wilson to the show. Daryl is the ABA Young Lawyers Division speaker for the 20 23 24 bar year. In this role he serves as the chief policy and legislative officer overseeing the Wilde Assembly. Great to have you back on the podcast, Daryl.

Speaker 3:

Thanks so much, Dave. Glad to be here.

Dave Scriven-Young:

So I understand you’re going to be giving us tips on transitioning to an in-house Counsel role. So what’s your quick tip?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, the tips that I have today will be helpful for an individual who’s looking to transition from private practice to in-house, or they may even be helpful for an individual who is moving from one in-house opportunity to the next. The first tip that I have is to understand the parameters of your role. When you want to look into the interview process or you’re going through the interview, it’s great to have a clear understanding of what your specific role that you are interviewing for and what you’re being slated to do at the company. Once you go through the interview process and you’re selected to be the in-house Counsel, you want to get another opportunity to focus on the parameters of your role. And I would say that can be performed. Once you’re onboarded, you can meet with your boss to go over the role and confirm your understanding of what your role will be from the interview.

Getting a good understanding of your role will allow you the opportunity to properly plan on how you would like to execute your role and how you would like to be viewed in the company. Once you get that understanding surrounding the parameters of your role and what you’ll be doing for the company and what your specific practice area will be. The next step or the next tip that I would tell you is to learn the business. There are many ways that you can learn the business so that you can be successful in your role. And the first step begins in the interview process. That is to review the website to determine the industry that you are looking to interview for or that you’re looking to get into or seeking to enter. So when you do that, you want to go through the website and you want to look at pretty much all of their tabs that may be on the website to learn the products, to learn about the company, to learn the culture of the company in order to understand what the businesses that you are about to embark on.

The next thing that you would want to do is get over to that investor’s page and read the annual report. The annual report has a lot of helpful information for you to determine the industry that you’re looking to jump into, what it is that that company is doing. And while you’re looking at that annual report, this can also help you understand how you may be a fit for the company and what things you may be able to bring to the company to help it succeed. The next thing that I would actually caution you to do is also to read the sustainability report. Sustainability is a growing industry right now, and there are a lot of companies taking a lot of looks at sustainability and seeing how we can be a more sustainable environment. So when you look at those things, that may give you also the idea of what type of company or what is the industry that you’re looking into.

If it’s an industrial company, they may be focusing on zero emissions or making sure that the environmental atmosphere is a clean one for the individuals in this country. The next thing that you should do is look for opportunities to tour facilities or go on ride alongs with your clients to understand what it is that they do so that you can be a good business partner for them. Which takes me to my last tip is that you want to meet with your internal clients and be a trusted advisor for the organization. A perfect way to do that is during your first 90 days, is to schedule meetings with your internal clients, to introduce yourself, to discuss your capabilities, and also set boundaries as to how you may be helpful in the role. My tip would be to first meet with the VP of that particular team and have a one-on-one with that individual so that you may be able to show what you can do for them in their role.

And then after you have that one-on-one with the VP or senior director, the next thing would be is to meet with the team members so that the team members know who you are and how you may be a resource to them and actually listen to them when they talk to you to understand what may be some areas of concern for them so that you can highlight those and take those on within your first few months on the role. So you can show that you can be a trusted advisor to them. Which leads me to the next part of this tip is to build a collaborative relationship so that your internal clients feel that you are approachable and that you’re someone that they can turn to when they have an issue and you can help them resolve that particular issue. The last part of this tip is that you want to find ways to never be a barrier to ideas that your internal clients may have.

You want to be able to help them get to yes, and you want to be able to help them to yes, legally. So as a trusted advisor, you want to be able to let them know ways that they can get their ideas across and bring their ideas to fruition as their trusted advisor within the business. So if you follow these three tips, one is to understand the parameters of your role. Two, learn the business, and three, meet with your internal clients so that you may be a trusted advisor. You will be a stellar in-House Counsel, and you will see your career grow far because you have now crossed over into that land of being a trusted advisor for your internal business partners. And Dave, these have been my tips for today.

Dave Scriven-Young:

Well, terrific. Gerald, thanks for sharing those practical tips today.

Speaker 3:

Thank you.

Dave Scriven-Young:

And that’s all we have for our show today, and I’d love to hear your thoughts about today’s episode. If you have comments or questions you’d like for me to answer on an upcoming show, you can contact me at [email protected] and connect with me on social. I’m ad attorney Dsy on LinkedIn, Instagram X and Facebook. You can also connect with the ABA Litigation sections on those platforms as well. But as much as I’d like to connect with you online, nothing beats meeting in person at one of our next Litigation section events. So please make plans to join us at the 2024 Section annual conference in Washington DC taking place May 1st through the third. This section annual conference is the premier event for litigators. It brings together top Litigation professionals from across the US to discuss timely legal issues and the latest in trial advocacy, Litigation strategy and case management.

The conference will include over 20 dynamic programs highlighting all aspects of Litigation, and there will of course be multiple opportunities to network during the programming breaks and breakfast, as well as to welcome reception, networking luncheon, international Spy Museum Reception, and the John Minor Wisdom and Diversity Leadership Luncheon. To find out more and for registration information, please go to ambar.org/sac 2024. If you like the show, please help spread the word by sharing a link to this episode with a friend or through a post on social and invite others to join the show and community. If you want to leave a review over at Apple Podcasts, it’s incredibly helpful. Even a quick rating at Spotify is super helpful as well. And finally, I want to quickly thank some folks who make the show possible. Thanks, To Michelle Oberts, who’s on staff with the Litigation section. Thanks. Also goes out to the co-chairs of the Litigation Section’s audio content committee. Haley Maple and Tyler, true thank you to the audio professionals from Legal Talk Network. And last but not least, thank you so much for listening. I’ll see you next time.

Continue Reading