Dennis and Tom debate whether music and ambient audio can help you work and do life better.
Tom Mighell has been at the front lines of technology development since joining Cowles & Thompson, P.C....
Dennis Kennedy is an award-winning leader in applying the Internet and technology to law practice. A published...
Can certain audio experiences actually enhance your energy and focus? Dennis thinks so. Tom’s a skeptic. The debate ensues!
Later, the guys lay out their personal tech wishlists this holiday season. If you’re looking for a few gift suggestions for the techies and/or favorite podcast hosts in your life, tune in!
As always, stay tuned for the parting shots, that one tip, website, or observation you can use the second the podcast ends.
Have a technology question for Dennis and Tom? Call their Tech Question Hotline at 720-441-6820 for answers to your most burning tech questions.
Special thanks to our sponsors, Colonial Surety Company, ServeNow, and Nota.
A Segment: Soundscapes and Functional Audio
B Segment: Our Personal Tech Wish Lists
Dennis Kennedy: Before we get started, we’d like to thank our sponsors. First of all, we’d like to thank Nota powered by M&T Bank. Nota is banking built for lawyers and provides smart, no cost IOLTA account management. Visit trustnota.com/legal to learn more that’s N-O-T-A, Nota. Terms and conditions may apply.
Tom Mighell: Next, we’d like to thank Colonial Surety Company Bonds & Insurance for bringing you this podcast. Whatever court bonds you need, get a quote and purchase online at colonialsurety.com/podcast.
Dennis Kennedy: And of course, we’d like to thank ServeNow, a nationwide network of trusted prescreen process servers work with the most professional process servers who have experienced with high volume serves, embrace technology and understand the litigation process. Visit servenow.com to learn more.
Intro: Got the world turning as fast as you can, hear how technology can help legally speaking with two of the top legal technology experts, authors and lawyers, Dennis Kennedy and Tom Mighell. Welcome to the Kennedy-Mighell Report here on the Legal Talk Network.
Dennis Kennedy: And welcome to episode 302 of the Kennedy-Mighell Report. I’m Dennis Kennedy in Ann Arbor.
Tom Mighell: And I’m Tom Mighell in Dallas.
Dennis Kennedy: In our last episode, we shared 12 of our favorite personal productivity tips to help you plow your way through your to-dos before the end of the year. In this episode, we wanted to try a topic that we are certain no legal or legal tech podcast as ever even tried before and look at ways to intentionally use audio to enhance productivity, relaxation, creativity and more. Tom, what’s all on our agenda for this episode?
Tom Mighell: Well, Dennis, in this edition of the Kennedy-Mighell Report, we will indeed be discussing some ways to use some rather interesting audio tools to enhance your work, your productivity and maybe your life. In our second segment, we’re going to give our own spin on holiday tech gift lists as in what do we want for the holidays. And as usual, we’ll finish up with our parting shots that one tip website or observation that you can use the second that this podcast is over.
But first up, more productive living through audio. In our last episode, we discussed productivity tips from a familiar standpoint. In this episode, we are sticking with the productivity theme, but we are venturing into unknown waters for some, a different area for us, one we bet most of you don’t have a lot of contact with and that is the use of audio, music and sounds to improve focus concentration and help you work better and be more productive.
I’m going to admit that I think I’m going to be the cynic in this episode. I’m open to the idea, but I’ve yet to see the benefits of it. And so, I’ll be a little bit of the grump on this, but let’s start out by saying, Dennis, why not get started by giving our listeners a better idea of what the heck we’re talking about when we talk about audio and helping people improve their focus and productivity.
Dennis Kennedy: Well, I saw this term today, which is not one that I had used before, but actually I think is a good descriptive term for this area and it’s functional music. If you think about it, people use music for all sorts of purposes. A lot of people listen to music when they work out, or they walk, whatever, and there’s actually been some science around how audio affects the way our bodies work, the way our minds work and so, at certain workouts, if you use music with the certain beats per minute, that can be helpful, music can be motivating, those sorts of things.
And what we’re looking at is we’re looking to say, take that basic concept that everybody is familiar with, like, oh, I feel more energy or I can work out better when I listen to certain music, and we’re trying to do it in a targeted sort of way. And there’s a whole bunch of categories that show up in this area. It goes from just background music where you just kind of want to maybe tone down interruptions and put yourself in, in what I would call a soundscape that it feels good to you and reduces distractions.
There’s music that is for relaxation or mood, so you might think if you go to a spa or something like that, you’re going to hear certain types of music. There’s definitely music for focus and concentration. Sometimes, there is no noise so you might have white noise or pink noise, nature sounds. I’ve used music to help me sleep, and then you also can use not exactly music, but noise cancellation I think is another example. There’s a lot out there, Tom. A lot of things to choose from, I’m surprised you haven’t found one that appeals to you.
Tom Mighell: Well, but it depends on what you’re looking for and what you want to do. Because there’s a couple of ways to think about this, let’s come back to the science really quickly. I want to throw some scientific terms around and get the geek stuff out of the way and then maybe talk about practically how this works and what we think about it. There’s a concept that’s called dynamic attending theory. There’s a lot about that that I don’t understand. I tried to learn about it for this podcast. It was so hard. I did not — was too much science for me.
Basically, it’s the idea that it is possible to use music or sounds to sort of synchronize with your brain waves and thereby improve brain performance to create what they, the people who are working on this, would call a flow state, a state where you can arguably be more productive. And so, the argument behind this kind of music is that most music is distracting. There are some ways that it distracts you and it finds ways to grab your attention.
And I will tell you, there are certain kinds of music that I listen to some of my favorite Beethoven symphonies. There are parts of those symphonies that I really love and I perk up and I want to listen to it because it’s great music, so I get that, but I will say that it’s not just it’s, I would say, primarily songs or music that has lyrics is more distracting. We’re not even talking about things with lyrics in this. This is all instrumental music that we’re talking here, but the goal is to design music or sounds that are able to sit comfortably in the background and that any attention-grabbing elements are either removed, they’re depressed, they’re something that you don’t pay attention to, so that the sound basically becomes part of your background and your brain is aware that it’s there, but you personally aren’t aware that it’s there.
There are services, we’ll talk about some of the minute that claim that it takes with a well-designed music track, it takes about three to seven minutes for you to get into a flow state and lock in with the music. This is where I’m skeptical. I’ve yet to feel what I call a flow state. Maybe I’m in it and I don’t know that I’m in it, but it’s something that I’m having some challenges with.
And I think that the thing is is that the types of categories, Dennis, that you described, there are lots of categories out there, but they’re not really designed the way that I’m talking about to have that flow state. They may just naturally do it or they may help you with it, but what I’m talking about are “scientists” or others who are actually trying to develop music that will do this for you, not reverse engineer it and have you listen to music that hopefully will get you there but it wasn’t designed to do in the first place. That makes sense?
Dennis Kennedy: Yeah. Let me give just a little bit of history. Sometimes you think a background music and you think of Muzak, if you go back that far. And so, Muzak was sometimes club music for elevators because it was designed not to get your attention. And then in some cases, it was designed to put you in different kinds of mood so that some people felt that a certain music played in stores would make you more willing to spend more money.
But anyway, so you had that music sort of background notion and then a musician named Brian Eno kind of took this notion to an art form I think with the series of albums he did, and the most well-known of those is called Music for Airports. And there are some actually airports that play his music because I’ve heard it before and the idea is it gives you a sense of calmness in a large space, so really interesting stuff. If you would kind of experiment with that world, which is usually known as ambient, and I’ll talk about a little bit more about that in a minute.
The one that’s happened in the last couple years that’s got a lot of attention is a song that’s called Weightless from a group called Marconi Union and it was designed specifically to relax listeners and to encourage sleep and it’s really interesting. If you want to experiment it, that is a song to experiment with to see how you feel, but they did some studies on it and listening to that song lowered resting heart rates by an average of 35% and reduced anxiety in the way that the research study tested it by 65%. It’s a really interesting example of how to do that and one place of it.
And I think it’s like Tom was saying, there is this flow notion, there’s also relaxation and other things that you might try to do. Focus is another approach, but those are probably two examples of what I would do. And I think, Tom, it also goes to that functional music to me is really intriguing because this really is using music or sounds rather than actually enjoying them.
Tom Mighell: Right and to come back real quick to the relaxation, I don’t know that I think it’s important that we talk about relaxation as part of the genre, but we’re really more talking about the functional piece of it than the relaxation piece, but there are, I would argue, dozens of apps out there that, I mean, helping you get a better night’s sleep is a big business and there’s a lot of services out there that will offer primarily, I would guess, they are nature sounds. I mean, those are the babbling brook, the thunderstorm, the ocean, those types of things are relaxing to listen to.
And if I had problems falling asleep, I probably would use one of those services but I think that what, to me, the sounds that you described that help you get into more of a focus state, they have to buy necessity because, I put it in a different wake, they have to be kind of boring. They can’t be exciting. They can’t get your attention. And a lot of times, and what the service that Dennis and I have been using recently, some of the flow music that they have tends to be very repetitive. It’s just over and over and over and over the same type stuff, and it just kind of gets locked in your brain, and you kind of forget that it’s there because it’s doing the same thing over again, which I think I have to train my brain to accept that it might be doing what it’s supposed to be doing by not having me expecting something exciting to come up and then I’m not paying attention to it, but I think that that if you do pay attention to that kind of music, it sounds all the same. It’s not necessarily the most interesting music in the world, but then that’s not the point.
Dennis Kennedy: I mean, I think that there is a thing that you do not want the music to interest you as music. And so, for me, if there’s something that says classical music for relaxation or sleep or something like that and it just uses slower classical movements, that’s music is too interesting to me, and it doesn’t kind of fall into the background or work for me in the same way.
I like this genre called ambient, which tends to be electronic, doesn’t have percussion. That’s a big thing for me of, I don’t like this music that has any kind of percussion because that does pull my attention. And there’s a whole genre of it and you can find all sorts of things and it will sometimes mix nature sounds and sometimes even like whale sounds, like it’s a whole bunch of different things that people have done.
I tend to like, what I would call, international ambient. Sometimes, some of the Scandinavian ambient music, Japanese, Chinese, that sort of thing actually appeal to me but It tends to be more electronic. On the other end of the spectrum, there are things that I really don’t like and the main one is white noise because of my own bad experience with a bad employment of white noise in the workspace that was way too loud and gave me headaches, so I don’t know what’s go back there.
But I think you have to experiment and find the things that you like because, Tom, you were saying like even on the nature sounds for sleep, what I find is that if I’m listening to something on ocean waves, I can’t, there’s something about it that just draws my attention. I can’t fall asleep. But if I put like a light rain sound on, that’s perfect for me for sleeping, even if there’s thunder in there, so you kind of have to do that. Tom, I know you have a different approach and I think that will be interesting to people because it will sort of illustrate how you need to do some exploring and find something that personally works for you?
Tom Mighell: Well, and that’s really the name of it is that is it the same things won’t work for everybody, because I got to tell you, I really don’t like ambient music. Ambient is not my favorite. Although I’m intrigued by international that there’re actually flavors of ambient, so I may have to go listen to it to see if I can tell the difference between them, but I’m not a fan. I like music that sounds like music and I tend to respond better to solo piano because it’s usually quiet, it’s not loud, it’s fairly relaxing, not so much that I would sleep but it stays pretty much in the background.
That’s usually what I listen to. That or some level of classical, there’s some choral music like ancient choral music that I will listen to that sometimes can sound, not necessarily like chanting, but sort of the medieval music kind of can get you into that area. Those are kind of the ones that I tend to gravitate to the most. Although, I think we’re going to talk here a bit about different services that you can look at and use and the service that I use really is making an attempt to create specific music that is designed for this. I’ve been listening to that and I would say that it may be close to ambient. I mean, it’s really not close to anything that I’ve listened to before. I’m giving it a shot. I’m not sure I’m 100% there yet, but those are the kinds generally that draw me.
Dennis Kennedy: Come on, Tom, spill the beans. What is the name of that service?
Tom Mighell: All right. The name of the service is brain.fm. I’ve been a subscriber for a while. Dennis, I think you just subscribed recently. It is a service where they literally are trying to patent some scientific technology around creating this music. They have humans designed the music. They don’t want it to be computer-generated because they want it to sound like music, but they have a specific science that they’re following.
That said, you can choose music to focus, music to relax, music to sleep. It’s all slightly different. I kind of listened to it because they have like ocean sounds for focus, ocean sounds for relaxation, ocean sounds for sleep. They’re all slightly different. They don’t sound completely the same. I’m skeptical about why they’re different and what the difference is, but you can listen to all of those.
I will say though that some of the focus tracks, the focus classical, they have focus movie soundtracks, they feel like they would be too distracting to me. Again, it comes back to what Dennis says, you need to find out what works best for you. You need to try a lot and that’s why I like brain.fm because it has a lot of different things to choose from. I will say, just doing a quick search around there, there’s other places like a site called generative.fm. There’s one called Coffitivity where it takes in the idea that really what you need and what you’ve been missing through the pandemic is the sounds from a coffee shop or a cafe. You need people around you talking. You need to hear low voices, talking, and coffee mugs clattering and silverware clanging around. And then there’s another one called [email protected] I’ll put those in the show notes. There’s a couple of sides that I think are relatively interesting to look at.
Dennis, what about you? What about any services that you’ve looked at that you think are interesting?
Dennis Kennedy: Yeah. I recommend that if you already have a streaming service like Spotify, which many people do, but I’m looking at Spotify right now and I just, kind of sampling some of the things that the playlist I see and you see words like serenity, tranquility, ambient, brainwave of music, deep sleep, relaxing. Space music is very interesting category because it’s very open and kind of uses a lot of synthesizers, but it’s personal taste. Like Tom was saying, a lot of people — like I don’t like piano, it’s a little bit too percussive. There are other people who say, I really love piano or they might like to have acoustic guitar or flute, the native American flute genre is pretty popular. I don’t like that myself. But I think take your streaming service and then the other thing I would say is look for recommendations and there’s a number of things out there.
What I’m listening to now in Spotify, there’s a guitarist who used to be in a band called King Crimson, he’s name’s Robert Fripp and during the pandemic, he’s put together 52 songs that he calls Music For Quiet Moments and I find that really, really good as just background music in the normal day when I’m not really trying to focus or concentrate or achieve some result.
I think that those kinds of things are just going out and finding — there’s all sorts of sites like best ambient albums and stuff like that and finding something to try would be really good. One thing you might try that is kind of interesting that surprised me is Tibetan bells is another category that can be really interesting. It’s just sampling some things, so I think the streaming services are really great for this.
Tom Mighell: The other source that I might suggest if you’re interested in something that’s free is go on YouTube. I discovered this while I was looking at different live channels. There’s a whole area on YouTube if you look in the menu that you look in live area and just list all the different things that are going on live. At any given time, there are, I would say 10, 15 different YouTube channels that are just playing what they call either relaxation or study music. And they have a cartoon of a person sitting there studying and it’s designed for you to turn that on and just listen to it and they’re all free. They all are playing music, appears to be 24/7 that is study-related or focus-related. So, if you’re looking for a free way to get started, maybe your YouTube live channels would be a way to get some.
Dennis Kennedy: YouTube is great. I agree with you and that study category is really another good way to find things. The other thing that’s kind of interesting on YouTube as you start to experiment with things are things like fireplaces, because it’s the season for it now, but the fireplace staying and to use that as like a crackling fire as background can be an interesting thing to do.
And then also, I want to go back before we wrap up, Tom, on the notion of flow state. And so, I think that sometimes, you put the stuff on and expecting this kind of flow state to happen, usually what I find is I’ll put something on and say like for concentration or creativity, and if I start mind-mapping or writing an article or something, I just realize as I’m working on it that everything is coming really easily and what I thought I had like maybe three ideas and I’m feeling like three pages with ideas. And so, I think the flow kind of comes along and I’d say it’s like totally cause and effect, like flip the switch and it goes, but I think it kind of creates this conducive environment.
I mean, I just really love the term soundscape. I don’t know, Tom. We can probably wrap up at this point that we think is — we’ll put some resources in the show notes, but you can also — a lot of people have done playlist so I don’t know that we would ever get around to that, Tom, but it did. That might be something we could do, or we certainly love for listeners to share playlists with us or ideas. And I guess, Tom, as you as you think about it and as other people think about it, I think it comes down to the typical question: Is this a crazy idea or not?
Tom Mighell: I will give it like a half-crazy idea because I think that there’s something to it. I am not finding the flow state yet that you’re finding. I mean, maybe it’s there and I’m just not paying attention to it. Maybe it comes so naturally that I don’t even notice it, but it’s not something that I am immediately saying, “Whoa, this is amazing. I’m 2x more productive than I was before. I’m so much more focused than I was.” But I’m intrigued. I prefer not to work in silence. I agree that the stuff I usually listen to is a little too distracting so I’m using it. I think it’s interesting, and I think that if you’re looking for a way to relax, focus, sleep, whatever, but looking at one of these services or looking at this type of music definitely be interesting.
All right, before we move on to our next segment. Let’s take a quick break from a message from our sponsors.
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Tom Mighell: And now, let’s get back to the Kennedy-Mighell Report. I’m Tom Mighell.
Dennis Kennedy: And I’m Dennis Kennedy. This time of year brings out the list for tech gift suggestions. Now, those lists can be helpful, but they often seem like guesses at what other people want or what other people might seem as new or cool. I prefer lists like those from Cool Tools that tell us what people actually have used in really like, so I thought it would be fun to flip the usual approach to give suggestions on its head and in this segment have Tom and I tell you what is really on our own tech wish list for ourselves. It’s also a good way, frankly, for listeners who are struggling with what to get your favorite podcast hosts as gifts this year to come up with some ideas. Tom, what’s on your personal tech wish list?
Tom Mighell: Well, and to be quite honest, I’ve always been sort of the believer that I would rather receive something for the holidays that I told somebody to get me rather than to rely on them to actually get me something they thought I wanted, and, yes, I’m a bad gift receiver, but I like to give people lists. And so, I’m going to talk about the three tech things that are highest on my list and unfortunately, we already spilled the beans on them in our 300th episode because number one on the list is a 49-inch monitor. And I’m still waiting on the Dell UltraSharp 49-inch curved monitor. I have a Dell right now that’s a 37-inch. I love it. I really want a little bit more real estate. For some reason, 49-inch monitors are part of our supply chain issue right now and the Dell’s been out of stock now for almost a year. I’ve looked at other brands to see if they’re any good and I just haven’t found one that I like as much as I think I would like the Dell. There are a number of gaming ones out there that I might choose but that’s at the top of my list.
Second on my I wish list, actually, this is unfair for me to put it on there because it’s not out yet. It’s going to come out in 2022 at some point but I am super intrigued as a home office person. It’s from Logitech and it’s called a Logi, either Logi Dock. It is a dock that is designed to connect your laptop, your monitor. It has a speaker phone in it. It’s compatible with Zoom, Microsoft Teams, Google Meet. You can join meetings with a button. It looks like an incredibly powerful kind of a dock that’s built for your home office and I’m super interested in looking at that. That I think, so the 49-inch monitor, about 1,200 bucks right now at Dell. The Logi Dock is I think they’re pricing it about $350 or $400.
And then my last one is I’m looking for different lighting. The lighting that I bought early on in the pandemic for video isn’t really working out the way and the one that I’m kind of intrigued with right now is from Loom Cube. They’ve been doing this kind of lighting for a long time. They have a new light out that’s called the Edge Light and it is a light that both can double as a task light, but it can also be something that will enhance your appearance as well. It’s got all kinds of arms on it so that it can move around and be very versatile and adjustable and it’s about, right now, it’s listed at $120 light. And so, those are the three things that are interesting me right now on my list. Dennis, what are you asking for on your tech wish list?
Dennis Kennedy: It’s weird and I mentioned this to you before, as I sort of feel like I’ve reached this point where I have the tech that I want or they feel that I need and so, there’s nothing that’s really calling out to me. Even the sort of the big things like a drone or a 3D printer are definitely things I can live without. There’s no compelling reason. They’re just kind of interesting to me or anything in the robot kind of family. It’s nice to have, not need.
When I put together a list, I see things like APC Power Backup, Oculus charger, solar chargers, Airtags. Like you, Tom, I think a lot about lighting and maybe we’ll have a new podcast on lightscapes once we figure it out, but video lighting, smart lights, different colors of lights with LEDs, those kinds of things are interesting to me.
Then, there is a part of me that has been looking at the Steelcase catalog and wants to go crazy on home office furniture, but that’s a little bit outside there. But I would say that the two things that served standout products for me, one would be the Airtags and the other is the Elgato Stream Deck, I think it’s called, about $150 and it’s just like a little device that will help you switch between the different things you do. It’s really good for video stuff, but you can also use it to trigger macros and other things. I think, Tom, you might have talked about it in a prior podcast as well, but interesting device.
None of these are totally necessary for me, so like I said, I’ve reached this point where I’m actually kind of reached this tech equilibrium. It’s kind of an interesting place to be until the next few steps forward. It’s kind of anything that helps me get better with what I already have. But now, it’s time for our parting shots, that one tip, website or observation you can use the second this podcast ends. Tom, take it away.
Tom Mighell: I’ll talk about another gadget and this is actually one that I have. It has become uncomfortable for me to wear headphones during conference calls. I typically have used a set of both Bose noise-canceling. They’ve got great mics. The sound is great. I love it. I’m less comfortable wearing that during the day than in the past. And so, I was looking for, I’ve tried — my webcam has a microphone on it. People think it sounds like I’m talking from a speaker phone, the microphone laptop, obviously, that’s a joke, nobody’s going to pay attention to that.
I saw an ad and I pounced on it for Shure, S-H-U-R-E the microphone company. They have developed a what they call the MV5C Home Office Microphone. It’s a little tiny ball microphone. It is not designed to be a high-end type microphone like you might hear us talking on right now using. It is, I believe, $89. It’s not terribly cheap, but it’s not terribly expensive either for a microphone. And I will tell you, the quality on that mic is really very good for what I needed for. Now, I can get on calls with clients. I can get on calls. I don’t have to put my headphones on. People sound like I’m using a — and people, when they listen to me, it sounds like I’m using a quality microphone and it’s really very simple to use. I just plug it into the laptop and good to go. The Shure MV5C Home Office Microphone.
Dennis Kennedy: That just went on to my Amazon Wish list because that looks really cool to me. I have two things. One is the ABA Legal Technology Resource Center does annually these things called tech reports which are summaries of different parts of the ABA’s annual technology survey and I think they’re about eight of them and they’re coming out once a week, so we’re about three or four into them. And there are a few more to go.
I wrote the one on cloud computing. There’s others out there. Those are available on the Law Technology Today website or the Legal Technology Resource Center website, really useful insights into what’s happening in the world of technology based on that ABA survey.
And I just did something recently that I must have done a good enough job because Tom didn’t notice I did it but it completely changed my home office around and I completely rearranged my desk. And I just think that exercise itself at the end of the year is just a really great thing to do as a way to wrap up this year and just looking at the way you do things and making some changes to them and trying a few new things, I think is really one of the things I tried that I highly recommend as a tip for the end of the year.
Tom Mighell: I mentioned on the last time we did the podcast that I noticed that your desk looked like it was in a different place. I did note I notice these things, Dennis.
Dennis Kennedy: But I changed it even after that one. This is on a completely different side of the room now.
Tom Mighell: Well, okay, then all your walls are white. You just moved your pictures across to the other side. All right, we won’t argue like this on the podcast this episode. So that wraps it up for this edition for the Kennedy-Mighell Report. Thanks for joining us on the podcast. You can find show notes for this episode on the Legal Talk Network’s page for the show. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or on the Legal Talk Network site where you can find archives of all of our previous podcasts along with transcripts. If you would like to get in touch with us. Remember, you can reach out to us on Twitter or LinkedIn. You can always leave us a voicemail. We love to get voice messages to talk about on our B segment. That number is 720-441-6820. Until the next podcast, I’m Tom Mighell.
Dennis Kennedy: And I’m Dennis Kennedy, and you’ve been listening to the Kennedy-Mighell Report, a podcast on legal technology with an internet focus. If you like what you heard today, please rate us in Apple podcasts podcast and we’ll see you next time for another episode of the Kennedy-Mighell Report on the Legal Talk Network.
Outro: Thanks for listening to the Kennedy-Mighell Report. Check out Dennis and Tom’s book, ‘The Lawyer’s Guide to Collaboration Tools and Technologies: Smart Ways to Work Together’ from ABA Books or Amazon. And join us every other week for another edition of the Kennedy-Mighell Report only on the Legal Talk Network.
The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of nor are they endorsed by Legal Talk Network, its officers, directors, employees, agents, representatives, shareholders, and subsidiaries. None of the content should be considered legal advice. As always, consult a lawyer.
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|Published:||December 17, 2021|
|Category:||Legal Support , Legal Technology & Data Security|
Dennis Kennedy and Tom Mighell talk the latest technology to improve services, client interactions, and workflow.