This year’s historic ABA Techshow will be bigger than ever

Episode Notes

Transcript

Announcer:

Welcome to the ABA Journal Legal Rebels podcast where we talk to men and women who are remaking the legal profession, changing the way the law is practiced, and setting standards that will guide us into the future.

Victor Li:

It is that time of year again, this year’s ABA tech show will be a historic one for a couple of reasons. For one thing, this marks the 40th annual iteration of the show for another, it promises to be the biggest of all time emanating for the first time from Chicago’s McCormick Place. And there will be some other new and notable features of this year’s tech show that we’ll cover on today’s episode of the Legal Rebels podcast. My name is Victor Li and I’m assistant managing editor of the A BA Journal. My guest today is Steve Embry. Steve is the editor in chief of Tech Law, crossroads and serves as co-chair of this year’s a a tech show. Most importantly, Steve is a regular panelist on Legal Tech Week with yours truly, and I believe we’ll have some news regarding that on today’s show, right, Steve?

Stephen Embry:

Yeah, absolutely. As always.

Victor Li:

So thanks again for doing this. I appreciate it.

Stephen Embry:

Oh, thank you for having me. Looking forward to it. And it’s fun to be a guest on your show.

Victor Li:

Well, we’ll see how you feel afterward, but I just gave the elevator version of your bio. Can you tell me a little more about yourself and your background?

Stephen Embry:

Sure. I practiced law with a large law firm for many years. I hate to say how many because it would date me considerably, but I’ve had a full career and I was a mass tort defense lawyer, so I had cases all over the country. They were usually complex, whether they were class actions or mass courts or what have you. About seven or eight years ago, I resigned from the partnership. It was a cordial party, but I resigned and started my blog tech law crossroads because I was interested in technology and legal innovation and had written some articles on LinkedIn in that area. And it got to the point where when I would get up in the morning, knew that I was going to be writing and doing some interesting stuff with technology, I’d jump up out of bed and be raring to go. And when I had to go to work and work on lawsuits, I moved considerably slower. So I was fortunately at a point in my career where I could stop full-time practice and devote my energies to the blog and the various other things within the American Bar Association, and it’s a law practice division and speaking, and ultimately was asked to co-chair this year’s a tech show. And fortunately or unfortunately, I said yes.

Victor Li:

Well yeah, see how you feel after the show. Right. Well, actually that’s one thing because I’ve heard your story, your background story before, and I’ve always wanted to ask you this. I mean, when you’re a partner at a large firm, for many lawyers, that’s the dream. That’s why they went to law school. That’s why they practice law. That’s the brass ring that they’re always grabbing for. So how did you do it? You went into your managing partner or your chairman’s office and was just like, I’m residing to go work on a blog.

Stephen Embry:

Well, something like that. I originally pitched the idea of becoming the firm’s chief innovation officer and a, that was an idea that was before its time. And B, thank God for unanswered prayers because I’m not sure I would’ve been a very good chief innovation officer, but I was at a point where I didn’t have pen. I just finished a very large case. So it just seemed like a convenient time to make the break. I’d been thinking about it for a while and they were excited for me, happy for me, sorry to see me go, and I was sorry to leave. I’m not one of those people that goes around saying I’m a recovering lawyer. I was proud of what I did. It was a rewarding career, but I felt like it was time to do something different. And so that’s mainly how it happened.

Victor Li:

We’re certainly glad that you made the jump. So let me ask you about just tech show. So when was your first show?

Stephen Embry:

Probably 10 years ago, something like that. And it’s interesting because attending that show led to my involvement in the law practice division. I attended the show and the incoming chair of the law practice division at that time was Tom Bolt. And I didn’t know Tom from anybody, but I introduced myself to him and told him I would like to get involved in the law practice division because I thought what they were doing was valuable and the show was so great. And he said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ll work that out. Well, time went on. I didn’t hear from him. And so I called Tom and I said, I volunteered and you said he put me up with something and he said, oh, I’m so sorry that deadline has passed and I forgot all about it. He said, I tell you what, give me about an hour and I’ll fix it and I’ll get you involved in something. And he did got involved with some of the publications. I got involved with the Law Technology Resource center and just continued to work with the division. But I raised that because that example is really in keeping with how the show functions and sort of the atmosphere. It’s a very collegial show. I mean, people are, they want to meet other people, they want to network, they want to share stories, they want to find out what you’re doing. And it’s my favorite show, obviously I would say that. I better say that. Right.

Victor Li:

Your check is in the mail. Don’t worry.

Stephen Embry:

It’s a different show. Draws a different crowd from some of the other legal conferences. And as you know, I go to most of them and enjoy all of ’em. But tech show is different. We have a lot of our attendees, our lawyers themselves, unlike some of the shows where you have IT personnel there or marketing people there, but they’re lawyers themselves, many of them not exclusively, but many of ’em come from small to mid-size law firms. And so they’re very hands-on. They know what their problems are, they know the solutions that they’re looking for, or at least when they hear a pitch from a vendor, they can immediately say, that’ll work or that won’t work. It’ll solve my problem, or it won’t solve my problem. So say they’re hands-on, they’re not going back reporting to somebody else or reporting to the tech committee. They’re going back and writing a check or signing a contract if they like what they see. And so that’s a little bit of a different bod. And the vendors and exhibitors know that as well, I think. But they take a little bit of a different approach. And at some shows where they’re very glitzy and sales oriented, the vendor representatives know that they’re talking to decision makers and they’re talking to people that don’t want to hear a lot of BS about the product. So it becomes a little bit more conversational and a little bit more relaxing and a little bit more substantively oriented, at least in my view.

Victor Li:

Gotcha. Yeah, I mean you definitely see the same people a lot if you go to the show several years in a row or even for you like 10. So let’s take a break for a quick word for our sponsor, and we’re back. I’m curious just to get your view on just in the last 10 years, I mean it seems like a lot has changed with the show. I mean, not just the venue, but just the focus of it and just how certain technologies have come in and just really taken over. I mean, how would you reflect on the last 10 years and what you see as the biggest change in the way the show has functioned either from a substantive point of view or just from an attendance point of view?

Stephen Embry:

Well, first of all, let me make a pitch for one of the sessions at the show. As you pointed out, this is the forti 40th tech show, and on Saturday morning of the show, we have several former tech show chairs coming back to look back at the technology that has evolved over the past 40 years and sort of chuckle or scratch their heads wondering how we ever used a lot of that technology. And I think that’ll be a fascinating session, and it’s immediately, it’s going to be followed by our 60 tips and 60 minutes, which has been forward or more forward looking. But to answer your question, I mean obviously artificial intelligence, generative AI is going to be front and center at the show. I was joking with someone the other day about all the conferences that are going on today, and I said, what in the world did we have to talk about before there was artificial intelligence and generative ai? I mean, we had the same number of speakers and sessions, but what were they talking about? I can’t remember. So that is a huge change. The attendance has grown over the years. We had record attendance last year. I think we’re on track to have even another record attendance this year. We, as everybody hit a bump in the road with Covid, we had one or two virtual shows, I can’t remember which, whether it was one or two, I think it was one.

Victor Li:

It was one. It was one because we got in right before

Stephen Embry:

Everything

Victor Li:

Shut down. I think a lot of people were saying that tech show in 2020 was the last show before everything started closing down. So I remember thinking at the time that if the show had taken place a week or two afterward, we would’ve been canceled.

Stephen Embry:

Yeah, that’s exactly right. And so we had one, and then we had a couple of years after that where people were slow and coming back. But all indications are this year, we’re so far ahead this many days out in registrations that it’s really looking promising. There’s really a lot of excitement and buzz about it. And because the show has grown both in terms of attendees and in terms of exhibitors and sponsors, we’ve outgrown, at least in my time with Tech Show, we’ve outgrown two spaces. We were at the Hilton Hotel on Michigan Avenue and we outgrew that space, and so we then moved to the Hyatt Regency and we outgrew that space. And so now we’re, this year, as you pointed out, we’re headed to McCormick Place, which is one of the big biggest, if not the biggest convention space in the country. So I don’t think we’ll outgrow that one anytime soon. But there were people who said, we would never outgrow the Hilton or never outgrow the Hyatt. So you never know, I suppose. But those have been the biggest changes that I’ve seen in the time that I’ve been attending the show.

Victor Li:

I’m still nostalgic for the Hilton, though. I really liked that venue. It was nice and cozy. I knew where everything was. I knew where all the good spots were for wifi. If I needed to duck somewhere and hide out for a little bit, I knew where to go. But yeah, I mean then when the height came around, I started figuring that place out too. So I’m sure it’ll be the same with McCormick Place.

Stephen Embry:

Well, and one thing that we will have that we haven’t had, at least in all the years that I’ve been going to tech show, we will actually have these new things called Windows where you can actually sit in a room and see the outdoors as opposed to looking at basement walls. And I’ve walked the space at McCormick and the view of the lake is really quite something. So it is going to be a pretty venue. It’s going to be a different look. We’re later in the year as last year, last few years we’ve been in February or early March. Now we’re in early April. I can’t guarantee the weather in Chicago will be any better in early April than it was in mid-February. But if I were to bet, I would say it will probably be a little bit better.

Victor Li:

Well, it is Chicago, so you never know. You talked a little bit about the attendance and whatnot. Can you give me a generic or ballpark figure for how many people we can expect there?

Stephen Embry:

Well, last year we had over 1700, and I am reasonably sure that we will bust through that. Will we get to over 2000? We very well could. Will we go above that? We very well could. I mean, it is remarkable how the registrations are pouring in and have for some time. And typically with Tech show and all the other conferences, you get a real surge right before the show. So we’re expecting that we get a lot of attendees from Chicago, and of course they usually don’t have to get a hotel room, so they’re comfortable waiting close to the event itself before they sign up. So we’re really pleased with not only with the registrations, but we also have an increase in sponsors and exhibitors this year, which is also quite encouraging for us.

Victor Li:

Are there any new things from the show that we can expect for this year? I mean, you talked a little bit about the panels and whatnot, but are there some new features that we can expect?

Stephen Embry:

Well, one thing we’re going to do that I think will be fun is since it is the 40th anniversary, we are going to have an eighties theme party. And some of the people on our planning board have taken that quite seriously and been out purchasing items of At Tire to bring them back to the eighties, although we’re not. We’re going to keep anybody out if they don’t want to do that, but that should be a lot of fun. And the look backward that I mentioned earlier, I think will be fun. We will have a lot of our standard features that we always have. We’re going to kick it off with the Startup Alley competition that Bob Abro should runs, which is always exciting as you see some of the new tech that’s out there. And some of the winners of that, by the way, have gone on to really make their mark in the field.

So we have that. We’ll be doing the Taste of Tech show, which is always popular with people. We have an exciting keynote. Our keynote speaker this year is Corey Doc Toro, who’s a noted voice of science fiction writer, and he’s a thought leader in the area of technology. I heard him speak last year at the American Association of Wall Librarian Conference, and he got a standing ation. He’s particularly relevant today because one of the things that he talks about is how the technology companies, as they grow and get venture interest and even go public, they begin to corrupt themselves and lessen their offerings to the original customers. And he’s got a term for it, which I will not use on a family show, but I will substitute the word and call in ification. And he’s got some really good examples of that, when that has occurred and how it’s occurred.

And I say it’s relevant because as you know, we’re seeing lots of venture capital involvement in the legal tech space, and the same dangers could be present as there, and he doesn’t play at all at the feet of venture capitalists of course, but to some extent it’s inevitable, although he’s got some ideas about how to combat that. So that’ll be really an interesting kickoff. He’s a very good speaker. I can attest to that. So we have a lot of things. We have some of the regular presenters coming back. Jack Newton will be presenting, ed Walters will be presenting. We have some really good judicial involvement from Judge Shale and Judge Dixon who are thought leaders. They both were involved in the recent treatise from the Sedona Conference on the use of generative AI and by the judiciary. So that’ll be a fascinating discussion. Dr. Moore Grossman will be a speaker who’s one of the foremost authorities in this area and a number of other areas for that matter.

Victor Li:

Yeah, a lot of areas. Yeah,

Stephen Embry:

A lot of areas. One of the smartest people that I know. So we really have a lot of very dynamic and fascinating speakers and a lot of, we have over 70 sessions this year, and as you know, we will be doing our legal tech round table as one of the sessions.

Victor Li:

Yeah, I was going to tee you up for that one next, but what is that schedule for and what can we expect

Stephen Embry:

That is going to be at one o’clock on Friday, and it is styled sort of as an opportunity for each of us to reflect upon and comment upon the leading legal tech stories of the year as opposed to the leading tech stories of the week. But as you know, where that round table goes and what the panelists like to talk about is hard to script. Or maybe I should say it’s hard to keep us on script.

Victor Li:

Well, I thought it worked well at Clio because we had that format and we were a little bit more kind of not boxed in, but we did have to stick to the format a little bit just because of the questions and whatnot. So I thought that worked out pretty well, and I would imagine Bob would probably do something similar for tech show, but we’ll see. So let’s take another quick break for a word from our sponsor and we’re back. So Steve, you talked a little bit about this before, but one thing I’ve always liked about tech show is that it provides a little something for everyone. Neophytes can learn about basic technology. More experienced conference goers can learn about more advanced, more cutting edge tech to make their practices more efficient. So let’s talk about each instance. So first, let’s say I’m a total neophyte. I can barely turn on my computer. I know very little about the cloud or things like that. So how would you suggest that I plan my schedule so that I can get the most out of the

Stephen Embry:

Show? Well, we have several sessions where we have a part one and a part two on hands-on stuff. But when you look at the presentations, you could kind of get a fairly good idea what they’re about. What I mean by that is we have some sessions that would be how they use Microsoft copilot or how to use Microsoft Word very sort of practical, down to earth, everyday kind of tools. Well, for all of us, I mean, we can all certainly learn something for that, but a lot of those sessions would be for people that aren’t savvy users in those areas. And then we have more esoteric sessions that get perhaps a little bit more philosophical and go a little bit more in depth. I think what I would advise people to do is to look at the schedule, look at the presentations, and figure out their game plan.

There’s also the exhibit four, and it’s interesting, as I said before, the exhibitors, they know who they’re talking to, so they will certainly be responsive to any sort of questions that you want to ask just to get basic information. For example, I would tell anybody in that position that at our show, there’s no such thing as a bad question, so don’t worry about it. None of us certainly buy, and I don’t think anybody knows all there is to know about technology in the legal space. So don’t be afraid to ask questions. We have a hub in the exhibit four for questions and answers, so feel free to go there and ask questions. There’ll be a number of us that’ll be available to help and sort of direct people with their particular interests, what to go to and what to see, and who to talk to.

Again, the best thing about the show is it really is based on that philosophy that we will have people that are very advanced. We’ll also have people that are just starting out in the tech journey. And so we want to be responsive. And the people that go, I mean, are very, as I said before, we’re very collegial. You mentioned that we have a lot of repeat attendees and we do, but it’s not a cliquey show at all, as you could tell from my example, I used it to get involved in the law practice division, and if it had been a cliquey organization, A, I wouldn’t have wanted to have been involved, and B, I wouldn’t have been able to, I wouldn’t be a member of the clique, but we’re not like that at all. The text show is, and has always been just a very composed of a very approachable group of people. So don’t be afraid to ask questions if you haven’t been before or even if you have, as I say, there’s no such thing as a bad question.

Victor Li:

Gotcha. And so let’s say the next scenario, I’m somewhere in the middle. I use some technology in my practice, maybe a practice management software program or some cloud stuff or whatnot. So how would you suggest I plan my schedule in that case? Would you say go to more sessions or you say talk to more people, or maybe a mixture of both? What would you recommend?

Stephen Embry:

Yeah, I mean, I think it’s a mixture of both. It takes some planning and really once you start in with learning about any technology, but in legal technology in particular, you really have to sort of look at what you want the technology to do for you. Different sizes of firms have different needs. People in different practice areas have different needs. The needs of somebody who drafts contracts and is charged with negotiating and drafting contracts are completely different than the litigator who is more concerned with cross-examinations and direct examinations and evidence. So really assessing where you are and what your needs are, what kind of practice area you’ve got, what kind of law firm you’re in. As I pointed out on our round table before, I mean the business model of a plaintiff’s contingency firm is considerably different than the business model of a firm that bills exclusively by the hour.

And so assessing what you’re going to use technology for, what needs you have, I think is a good first step, particularly for those in the mid-level and for those on the high end as well. I think a lot of times law firms and lawyers get into trouble where they don’t start out with making that kind of assessment, and then they end up getting some technology that doesn’t work very well for them, and they throw up their hands and say, I knew this technology stuck was a pie in the sky would never work. And they walk away dissatisfied and don’t come back for a long time. And that’s not necessarily the technology’s fault. Also, sometimes it can be, but it’s really not understanding what you want the technology to do for you and then assessing whether it can do that.

Victor Li:

And finally, let’s say I’m a regular attendee. I’ve been to a bunch of shows. I know most people and I’ve already supercharged my practice. I’m not Jack Newton, I’m not sponsoring hockey teams, but I know a lot of people and they know me. So how would you then suggest that I spend my time at tech show

Stephen Embry:

For those kind of people? Certainly there are sessions that you would benefit from, don’t get me wrong, but a lot of the benefit of those kind of people for those kind of people is talking to other people that are in the same sort of level about what’s working, what’s not working, what are they’re seeing, what are they doing? The networking component and the exhibit hall is really a good place, I think, to do that for everybody. But particularly if you’re highly skilled, it’s the vendors and exhibitors there. While they are, they don’t mind answering questions, more simple level. They’re certainly able to talk very high tech as well. I mean, most of them are experienced. Many of ’em have been there before, and then they’re quite knowledgeable and they’re quite interesting people for that matter. And I wouldn’t slight the opportunities that the taste of tech show offers, it gives you an opportunity to have dinner with people that are interested in the same topics and talk in a more informal space over dinner at a nice restaurant. And so a lot of information gets exchanged that way. So all those things I think are opportunities for people of any level to gain insight and learn things at text show.

Victor Li:

Gotcha. And finally, I guess my last question would be for a lot of people who attend, even more experienced people, text show can be overwhelming. There can be a lot of information coming at you at once. And a lot of people have complained to me or pointed out to me that sometimes just they might get paralyzed because they have too many choices or they have too many things that are on their mind or too many things that they get hit with. So how would you recommend people who might fall into that category? What should they do after the show to make it feel like that they’ve accomplished something or that they took something away from the show? Should they implement one or two things immediately, or should they just sit back and think about everything? Or maybe a little bit of both? What would you recommend?

Stephen Embry:

How do you draw an elephant? A large elephant, you just start someplace. And I think for technology that’s important. Going to textual is a little bit like drinking from the proverbial fire hose, but I’m sure there’ll be something that will stand out to people, something that they think that might work. And so just start with something simple, easy. Most of the vendors are happy to provide a demo of their product or even let you use it for a week or two and see what you think. But just start, I mean, even if you think I’ll never master everything, it’s correct, you won’t, but you just make a slight improvement. And that’s true in law firms of all sizes. I mean, it’s what most people would suggest is you’re going to implement a new technology in a firm, start small. Don’t try to get everybody to do it all at once, but get somebody to try it and that somebody can spread it to his or her neighbor next door and they’ll spread it again. And before long, people will be interested in doing it. And I think the same thing is true here. Start small, start someplace, start with a small step and go from there.

Victor Li:

Sounds good. To wrap up, if our listeners want to talk to you about either text related questions or just general technology issues and whatnot, what’s the best way to get in touch?

Stephen Embry:

You can reach me at my email address, which is [email protected]. And I’m always happy to talk about technology. You can reach me through LinkedIn as well. I’m happy to connect with people and there’s always my blog, which since I’ve shamelessly promoted tech show, I will shamelessly promote my blog, which is Tech Blog Crossroads, and I write frequently about technology, technology products. And so yeah, feel free to reach out if you have questions or thoughts and hope to see everybody that’s listening at Tech show in early April.

Victor Li:

Yep, looking forward to it. Thanks for joining us today, Steve. I appreciate it.

Stephen Embry:

Yeah, thank you for having me. It’s been a fun conversation.

Victor Li:

Yeah, I enjoyed it. If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please go to your favorite app and check out some other titles from Legal Talk Network. In the meantime, I’m Victor Li and I’ll see you next time when you need via Journal Legal Rebels podcast.

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