The First Law Of Whoever Smelt It, Dealt It

Episode Notes

Transcript

Kathryn Rubino:

Hey, there you are listening to the latest episode of the Jabot podcast. You’re not actually listening to the Jabot podcast. Sorry. A little bit of sense memory. You are listening to the latest episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer. I am Kathryn Rubino, a senior editor at Above, the Law, and one of your hosts, and I am joined today by another one of my editors, Chris Williams. Hey, are you doing there, Chris?

Chris Williams:

Pretty good. Pretty good.

Kathryn Rubino:

Yeah. And before we kind of get into the legal week, that was, we like to pretend like we’re real human beings and talk about things we like to do in a little segment we call small talk. There’s no sound effects because we are missing our other typical co-host, Joe Patrice, who is in charge of the soundboard. So no sound effects this week, but No, Joe too,

Chris Williams:

But what it’s worth, he’s at a work event.

Kathryn Rubino:

Yes. Yes. He’s at a legal tech conference.

Chris Williams:

Yeah. So right now he’s probably talking about work stuff, which is what he would’ve done if he were in the small talk segment. So it’s like he’s basically here, so

Kathryn Rubino:

There you go. He’s with us in spirit, if not in actuality. So how have you been in the last week or so, Chris?

Chris Williams:

I’m pretty good. I am anxiously waiting for Kendrick Lamar to finally drop a disc track in response to Drake running laps on him right now, which was not what I had expected, but that’s how it’s been for the last couple weeks.

Kathryn Rubino:

I’ve heard it described as the rap world going into Affinity War zone with everyone kind of responding and all that.

Chris Williams:

Yeah. Drake is Thanos now, and he’s got multiple stones. I don’t think he’s at the full gauntlet, but it’s like, yeah, it’s not even close. He’s curb stomping people right now. There was one point where, so for the listeners that aren’t aware, do better, but Metro Boomin is like a well-known producer. There was this one point where Drake is like, shut your whole ass up and go make some drums, which was hilarious. He is a producer. What else is he going to do? Do drum beats, and then he hired either a meringue or a mariachi band to make of song version of that that’s spun out of control and it’s hilarious. And at this point then somebody has to either steal his shoes or something. I don’t know what lyrical response people can have to this and it tickles my spirit is what it does. I don’t have any strong attachment to any of the musicians, particularly because I’m an adult, but it’s just fun to see the fan boys yelling or, oh my God, Kendrick, when are you going to respond? Drake’s the goat. And I’m like, okay, whatever. But it is funny.

Kathryn Rubino:

I mean, I think that you’re similar to me in also that the Petty really speaks to your soul.

Chris Williams:

It does. My soul elbow whole body really. I love a good, I love the spirit of just, I think Spinoza referred to it as the Bad passion. It’s you think it’s that break apart and weaken.

Kathryn Rubino:

I’m glad that we got to talk about Disc Jackson. Not at all about Taylor Swift. That was

Chris Williams:

Actually, so Drake makes a couple of Taylor Swift references on his dis tracks. Are you aware?

Kathryn Rubino:

I heard that it was like he had to postpone the date of his release because he was like, Taylor’s dropping something that day. It’s going to be what it’s going to be.

Chris Williams:

Yeah. So Drake was like, I’m glad I posted my response before Taylor dropped. She’s going to do numbers, which is part of Drake being like, people want to see beef between me and Kendrick, but Kendrick isn’t even be in anybody’s top five as far as numbers are concerned. There’s a bunch of artists that are selling a lot more than Kendrick, so it’s like, oh no, you getting beat by Taylor Swift who’s writing lyrics about Smash Brothers and getting touched

Kathryn Rubino:

It and also Kim Kardashian talk about the Petty there.

Chris Williams:

Got it, got it. It’s golden. I think people talk about the golden age of hip hop and all that, but I think we were in a golden age of petty. It was a genre that was dominated by realness for a long time, being dominated now by a literal actor that’s Canadian.

Kathryn Rubino:

I love that. You just came out hating all Canadians. You’re like, you’re the worst just FY. I

Chris Williams:

Mean, they know in seconds. It’s like, I dunno, Vancouver just doesn’t sound like a threatening place. I’m be honest. It just doesn’t, compared to Compton, it doesn’t. But on Ontario and them, they’re winning right now. So

Kathryn Rubino:

Amazing. Well, my weekend was dominated by attempting to get my baby to sleep. We’re not sleep training because cry it out sounds terrible to me. If you are a parent and have been able to do it, bless your heart. I don’t mean that even in a bad way, but in a, I can’t hear that and be alive, so it’s just not for me. But we are trying to get her into her crib full time. It’s just wildly inconsistent. Right? On Sunday night, I was so excited because she slept for eight hours in her own crib the entire time without any problems and it was fantastic, and then turned around the next day and couldn’t sleep more than 90 minutes at a stretch and it’s like I never know why or what. I try to replicate it when I have a good day. I try to remember everything that happens in the day and try to repeat it to the point where I’m like, I don’t know. She had blueberries and oatmeal on this day, and now I’m trying to give her blueberry and rice cereal, and that’s not what I did. I got to go back to do exactly what I did in order to have this perfect day again, and it’s not happening at all. It doesn’t matter how perfectly I replicate the day. It is what it is. So it’s not been my favorite.

Chris Williams:

The wildest thing is that just sounds like my sleep schedule. I’ve never understood the sleeping like a baby, like cliche. They don’t do it that well.

Kathryn Rubino:

So I mean, I will say in my baby was first born, we had the Snu bassinet system, which is a smart bassinet system, and it rocks the baby for you. It keeps them in perpetual motion and has white noise and there’s different settings on it and whatever, and it learns your baby’s

Chris Williams:

Movements. Wait, do they have that for adults?

Kathryn Rubino:

That is what a lot of people say. It is fantastic. You literally have to strap your baby in. You put them in a swaddle that then just hooks into the thing so they can’t move. They’re strapped in and when they grow out of it at six months. But when she was in the heyday of our Sno life, it was absolutely glorious. Those early days. People were like, oh, you’re not sleeping. I was like, I’m not sleeping, getting up in the middle of the night to pump, not because of my baby is crying. My baby was perfect in those first few months. And actually learning how to sleep as opposed to being put to sleep by a robot has been significantly more challenging.

Chris Williams:

Well, challenges, that’s a good note to get to The reason we’re

Kathryn Rubino:

Here. Yeah. The actual things that we’re doing. Well, we were talking about petty, so let’s start with the update from the Trump Hush money trial where heading into actually a short week this week because of Passover and only be going on for three days this week. And there’s still no decision as of this recording, at least from the judge about the contempt allegations that Trump’s tweeting about various witnesses and other figures in the case, whether or not that is actually worthy of contempt. I mean, it probably is, but what the actual penalty will be, I guess I should say. We haven’t really, the judge Marchan hasn’t ruled on that yet, but there is definitely a lot that’s out there. Three witnesses have testified so far, the head of the National Enquirer who’s sort of organized or orchestrated this catch and kill story that the Stormy Daniels was a part of. That was the whole impetus for this case. He testified. But I think one of the most interesting things that has come out from the trial without getting bogged down in the specifics that frankly by the time this release may be out of date, is how was the perception of Trump and how small he’s looked during the proceeding and uncomfortable. We’ve talked about he fell asleep during the thing. He complains about it being cold, the little old man that he is, but also came out that there’s a real unfortunate odor in the Courtroom.

Chris Williams:

Are you saying, is this a metaphorical justice stinks sort of thing

Kathryn Rubino:

Or Absolutely not. There’s actually a stitch. It actually smells terrible apparently in the Courtroom. No, of course, that has led to wild speculation as to what might be causing this smell. I think that it was Rachel Maddow who said that it smelled like stale breath and soup, which is really a visceral kind of description.

Chris Williams:

And the thing that gets me is it’s also so nonspecific. Like what soup

Kathryn Rubino:

We talking Campbell? I imagine cabbage soup. I don’t know.

Chris Williams:

Don’t insult cabbage like that. I feel like

Kathryn Rubino:

I love cabbage, but it has a very distinct smell. It, it’s not like you walk into a room where someone’s cooking cabbage and you’re like, what could that be? You’re like, oh, it’s cabbage.

Chris Williams:

Either that or the president.

Kathryn Rubino:

Is it coming from the president? That’s certainly what a lot of people are suggesting. There were a bunch of tweets saying that there were rumors going around for people who were in the courthouse saying that the president was releasing gas, basically pulling a baby, sleeping like a baby when he catnaps in the classroom in the Courtroom and farting, farting. So that could be it, but whoever smelt it, dealt it, and so I guess we don’t know. We will never get, my favorite part about this story is that Snopes, the ultimate debunker source on the internet is unverified unconfirmed. And it’s like, no kidding. Unless you’re sitting there admitting, yep, that was me. It’s hard to actually be for sure. It’s coming from any particular source.

Chris Williams:

I just feel like if this were Obama being another former president just being in court, he would’ve played the farts off much better, one and two, they would’ve been better dressed. I don’t know how, I just feel like this tracks with Obama as a person.

Kathryn Rubino:

Yeah, well, I think that if it were Obama in the courthouse, a lot of things would be different about it. Probably more terrible in other ways. And I mean, let’s not forget, the right wing created entire scandal out of the fact that Obama wore a tan suit, right? It had a

Chris Williams:

Nice cut. It was a nice suit. I think it was like an Easter suit or something.

Kathryn Rubino:

It was like a summer suit, right? It was like a less formal day or whatever, and he wore a tan suit and Oh my God. But giving hush money payments to porn stars now that that’s super presidential.

Chris Williams:

Yeah, I mean, I think the standards in the way the things get discussed in media are different when the subject of frustration is black, which

Kathryn Rubino:

Leads, yes, that is what I was alluding to. That is correct. That is what I was saying.

Chris Williams:

Yes. Which leads to one of the other big stories of the week.

Kathryn Rubino:

Well, before we get to that, let’s take a quick break and I hear from some of our sponsors,

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Kathryn Rubino:

Okay. You were starting a very eloquent transition, but I headed to take a break to get paid. So listen, let’s start with the latest on racists. More racists.

Chris Williams:

Got to love it. Yeah, eloquent is nice, but paydays are better. And I wish I got paid to talk about, I wish I got paid for just reading this. So this, it’s always weird to say maga, but it was like this MAGA pastor who, I’m not saying he created new racial terms, but I’ve never heard Justice Jackson referred to as Judge Jumanji before. So I personally give my kudos to racism when it’s clever. It’s probably not that clever. I’m assuming he stole from someone else, but

Kathryn Rubino:

I mean, I think of Bonnie Hunt when I think of KBJ.

Chris Williams:

Yeah, so he’s attacking basically her saying that she’s a monkey judge. Her opinions are dumb, of course. No reference to any concrete opinion or thing that she said because I’m not sure if this person has read anything, but besides that, all sorts of vial toward her. He then apologizes and says, oh, that was bad. I shouldn’t have referred to her lips, but I stand by everything else. I said, for the listeners at home, everything else was racist.

Kathryn Rubino:

I mean, his comments about her lips were also racist.

Chris Williams:

That was bad. That was bad. But monkey thoughts is still not, that shouldn’t be. No one in the NAACP would’ve been like, that was cool. Or anybody, if you had a conversation with a black person that wasn’t Clarence Thomas or Uncle Ruckus, they would’ve just understood. That’s not a nice thing to say about another person.

Kathryn Rubino:

I mean, I don’t want to be not all white people, but also not all white people. There’s plenty of white people who I watched. Okay, Taylor, I watched that clip and it was painful to watch. It was really out of hand, just kind of blatant racism. And our colleague Joe wrote about the story, and I think one of the interesting things that he kind of made the line to listen, there’s lots of racists and I’m sure lots of terrible people say lots of terrible things about all sorts of black people in this country, justice Jackson on that list. But I think that the sort of way that it relates specifically to the legal industry besides just being about Justice Jackson, is that the way that supposedly educated, at least having JD people spoke about now, justice Jackson during her confirmation practice was not as blatantly racist, but certainly opens the door to let the more blatant forms of racism in. It starts with people supposed professors or people who are supposed to teach at Georgetown saying that she’s a lesser black woman, and these are the sorts of things that when the sort of educated elite class given to it signals all the way down the line and it rolls and it spirals and it snowballs into something bigger and more an uglier, but you can’t forget where it comes from and the role that specific people and specific commentators had in creating and pushing that pebble down the hill that now it’s this massive ugly snowball.

Chris Williams:

The thing that struck me about it was the routine of it. I thought of it with that this isn’t even, the only reason this is news is because Justice Jackson is involved or referred to, but I remember being guess maybe a teenager at this point and just seeing effigies of Obama being lynched or hung or just the way the narrative kind of spills out in public. It’s like, oh, let’s say in this instance black people are inherently dumb or stupid, and then they’re like, oh, well, what about this person who has all these accolades? Oh, they’re DEI, higher, blah, blah, blah. So there’s never any, the constant moving is happening, but what is consistent is the disdain for just some behind the scenes. I didn’t think the story was worth sharing because my concern was we giving this guy a bigger platform, but I do think it is important for, I

Kathryn Rubino:

Think it was retweeted by someone with hundreds of thousands of followers, so it wasn’t under books. It’s

Chris Williams:

Like we’re giving it the only platform if the discussions are going to happen, which they are. I guess it’s important to have some framing on it that isn’t inherently, and I think Joe achieved that,

Kathryn Rubino:

And I do think that it’s important to say the ways in which it all builds upon each other. You don’t get to the awful things that this man was able to get a platform to say without already sort of the mainstream conservative legal movements already tearing down Justice Jackson’s achievements and intellect and capability. You only get there once the mainstream has given at least that winked and nod to allow it to happen.

Chris Williams:

Yes. As an aside, really bad repentance moment for a pastor, you think a person that’s well versed on matters of sin and wrong would be better about,

Kathryn Rubino:

Yeah. There was a separate video where this guy apologized and Chris kind of said it in the top of the segment, started out, I am so I am sorry I don’t have a racist boat in my body. The kind of things that you think is going to actually be an apology, and then it’s like a twist halfway through. He is like, except for when I called her, insert racism, insert racism, insert racism, because that I still think is true. I stand behind those comments and I’m like, do, because I don’t think you were so close to understanding what was wrong here, and then a massive, probably not actually close at all, but a swing in the mist, nevertheless. Okay. Our last big story of the week was, I think actually an end of the week story. Chris, one of yours about a hot mic gone awry.

Chris Williams:

First off, people listening, and you probably have some legal background, if not why, but thank you, but still

Kathryn Rubino:

You’re my mom, right? Yeah.

Chris Williams:

Shouts out.

Kathryn Rubino:

You’re related to one of us, or you probably have a legal background.

Chris Williams:

Yeah, shouts out Mama Kathryn. But yeah, I don’t know about y’all, but I occasionally still have that dream where I wake up and I’m like, I’m about to miss the last final in my undergrad class. I’ve been out of undergrad for years now, but there’s still that worry that

Kathryn Rubino:

I very much do not but

Chris Williams:

Power to you one day, maybe I’ll achieve that, but yeah, there’s still, I have worries. I’m like, oh my God, what if something’s wrong with my high school transcript? Basically, I’m always thinking the record is on. If I send an email, I send an email. I treat it like it’s loaded. If I’m on a video call, I treat it like it’s loaded if you are in, but

Kathryn Rubino:

Also that is really good legal training, right? That’s what I’m saying. That’s what I’m saying. As someone who has spent a lot of time reading people’s emails that they didn’t think anybody but the center was going to see, because now all of a sudden they’re, their company is involved in some sort of litigation and chuckleheads like me have to read them to see whether or not they’re actually responsive. Yeah, it’s all real. The record is absolutely odd,

Chris Williams:

And I will get to the point of the story at some point, but it’s like people, we are in a surveillance state. TikTok isn’t the only one constantly paying attention to the things we’re saying and thinking. When you say a thing, you get an advertisement for it. Two days later, you should know you’re on the mic, but when you’re in a position of comfort, you can kind of forget that even when there’s a literal microphone on your body. So what happened was there was a judge in Texas, they were presiding over a murder case. They were talking what they thought was in confidence to whether clerks would have you saying, oh, we know this guy is guilty. We know he did it, and they even went on and be like, we know why he committed the murder. He wanted to prove he was a man, blah, blah, blah. And then they were like, why is there a red button beeping? Yes. But at some point they realized they were on the microphone and who heard what they were saying, the jury. So yeah,

Kathryn Rubino:

That is a mistrial.

Chris Williams:

Yes, and because this judge was not Clarence Thomas, they saw a clear ethical issue and recuse themselves, which chops out to judicial ethics. But yeah,

Kathryn Rubino:

It’s doing the bare minimum.

Chris Williams:

Doing the bare minimum. It’s so hot when people meet the floor where it is. But yeah, if you are on a microphone, if you are sending an email, if you are not wearing your tinfoil hat, you should assume that you are being watched and recorded because you’re a lawyer. How much shit we go through just seeing people do dumb things.

Kathryn Rubino:

Also, this guy’s in a Courtroom, you have a microphone on your body. You don’t even have to be a conspiracy theorist worrying about the Chinese government listening to you. Someone’s listening to you. You’re wearing a device to assist them in hearing you. Right.

Chris Williams:

Once this podcast is off, I’m going to burn this room to make sure that my microphone isn’t still on. If you’ve touched a microphone within the last two days and you’ve been in a Courtroom, you should act like this stenographer’s in the corner. That’s just common sense judge or not, and it’s one of those things where maybe it was a comfort thing. It had to be, but just

Kathryn Rubino:

Pay attention. I imagine there are lots of mistakes that I’ve made in my life, and you don’t want your worst moment as a professional to be the only thing people remember about you, but this is pretty bad. This is

Chris Williams:

For what it’s worth. Judges have done much worse. So while it is a blight, it’s not like,

Kathryn Rubino:

So again, where be the floor, I guess.

Chris Williams:

Yeah. The thing that always comes to my mind, I think it a Tennessee judge that was basically enslaving black kids over a law that didn’t exist. A real story about that a couple

Kathryn Rubino:

Years ago. I mean, that is awful, right? Because that’s not funny, bad. That is evil,

Chris Williams:

Bad, bad. Yeah. It’s one of those things that’s so bad that people, if they saw in a movie, they’d be like, oh, why is art being political again? It’s like, this is, it’s like, wait, wait, wait.

Kathryn Rubino:

The bad life has a way of being that though. Also, sometimes it all comes out and I it funny. Obviously, I imagine there was a mistrial in that case as the jury hearing the judge’s opinion that this guy’s definitely guilty. I think that’s maybe one of the easiest mistrials that’s ever been granted.

Chris Williams:

Wait, no. You don’t understand. The judge could just went back and said, disregard my last statement.

Kathryn Rubino:

That definitely would cure it.

Chris Williams:

Yeah. Bell Unw.

Kathryn Rubino:

Well, on that note, I think that that’s all that we have for this week. Thank you everyone for listening. Thank you to our sponsors, and you can always read us at Above the Law. You can follow us on social media. I am Kathryn one, that’s the numeral one. Chris is at writes for rent. You should also be listening to the other offerings of the Legal Talk network. I’m also the host of the Jabo podcast, and Joe, he does something with legal tech people on Fridays. It’s legal tech journalist round table, I think he calls it. You should also be checking that out. I think that that’s all the things that I’m supposed to plug at the end of the show, so with that, peace,

Chris Williams:

Peace.

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