Kennedy-Mighell Report

The Pros and Cons of Upgrading Your System

Ensuring that your law firm’s technology is functional, secure, and up to date requires tech savvy and constant vigilance. One of the toughest decisions, and a fairly common one, is whether you should upgrade your firm’s existing operating system to a newer one. In this episode of The Kennedy-Mighell Report, hosts Dennis Kennedy and Tom Mighell discuss popular operating systems and the risks and benefits of upgrading your software.

In the second segment of the podcast, Dennis and Tom discuss how Twitter has evolved over time and the recent rumors that Twitter will be acquired. As always, stay tuned for Parting Shots, that one tip, website, or observation that you can use the second the podcast ends.

Special thanks to our sponsor, ServeNow.

View transcript

The Kennedy-Mighell Report

The Pros and Cons of Upgrading Your System

10/11/2016

Intro: Web 2.0, Innovation, Trend, Collaboration, Software, Metadata… Got the world turning as fast as it can, hear how technology can help, legally speaking with two of the top legal technology experts, authors and lawyers, Dennis Kennedy and Tom Mighell. Welcome to ‘The Kennedy-Mighell Report’, here on the Legal Talk Network.

Dennis Kennedy: And welcome to Episode 177 of ‘The Kennedy-Mighell Report’. I am Dennis Kennedy in St. Louis.

Tom Mighell: And I am Tom Mighell in Dallas.

Dennis Kennedy: In our last episode we revisited one of our favorite topics over the years, the cloud, and we discussed the current state of the cloud. Since that episode, Tom and I have both upgraded to macOS Sierra as we upgraded to Windows 10 earlier this year. That got us thinking about operating systems and operating systems upgrades. Tom, what’s on our agenda for this episode?

Tom Mighell: So Dennis, in this edition of ‘The Kennedy-Mighell Report’ we will indeed be talking about the upgrades for the major operating systems. In our second segment we will speculate on recent rumors that Twitter might be acquired, how Twitter fits into our lives and how it might change if somebody buys the company, and as usual, we’ll finish up with our Parting Shots, that one tip, website or observation that you can start to use, the second that this podcast is over.

But first up we look at the latest in major OS upgrades. Windows 10, which actually is not terribly new and macOS Sierra which as of this recording has only been live for most people for a couple of weeks.

It’s been several months now that we reported on the news that Microsoft was basically forcing everyone to upgrade to Windows 10, and just a couple of weeks ago Apple released macOS Sierra with really no pressure whatsoever, but I have got to say, I didn’t really rush to install either of these upgrades, which is different from upgrades of the past I would say.

Dennis, when’s the last time that you will admit that you’re excited about an OS upgrade?

Dennis Kennedy: Okay. So Tom, I know you’ve probably heard the story too many times with this Windows 95 which I get to see the launch event for and always point back to saying this is what launched me on the Internet, doing all the things that I’ve done with legal technology. I trace back to the launch event for Windows 95 and that one got me truly excited and since then I can’t point to a single darn one. What about you?

Tom Mighell: So if I’m really honest I was actually excited to upgrade to Windows 10. I mean, I look forward to all of them and will get into it more because I like seeing new features, but Windows 10, the problems around Windows 8, I was looking forward to seeing how Windows 10 had fixed those problems or addressed those issues. So I’m always ready for something new, but I think that you’re right. With each new release there is less and less — I guess we call it G-Wiz Cool Stuff or the cool stuff that does get released we are less impressed by.

There’s no question that each new operating system in some measure improves on the one before it, but it’s in incremental ways, it’s not always truly revolutionary ways, it’s not ways that make you set up and go, wow, this really is something that the minute that it drops I am going to have to download it, and while I am always interested to see those new features I’m just not in that, oh my gosh, I’ve got to install it right now that I may have had in the past I think.

Dennis Kennedy: Well, and the other things to add is when you think about it if there were this dramatic measure overhaul of an operating system, I mean, in the user interface, it would be really off-putting to a lot of people because we’re used to the way things work and if all of a sudden it drastically changed then I think people would be all freaked out and you go like, no, I like things the way I have it.

Tom Mighell: Well, that’s Windows 8, I mean, that’s when they decided that we really wanted to touch interface and so their whole metro style with the tiles and everything was really off-putting and as a result it was kind of a disaster of a release.

Dennis Kennedy: And then also with Windows you have the example of when they removed the Start button and people totally freaked out. It was really hard to find things because you were so reliant on that, and I think that sort of illustrates the dilemma in a lot of ways that Apple and Microsoft have with the operating systems because people like things the way they are and you have to try to say, okay, so how do I move things along without alienating people who use it on a regular basis?

(00:04:50)

So it’s sort of fascinating for that reason, and for me the more transparent and invisible the operating system is, the better for me, and it is why I tend to prefer the macOS is that I sort of feel it’s a little bit easier for me to get directly into the work I’m doing. I think the two operating systems are closer together probably than ever before so that transparency is really important and I can appreciate certain things and then the things that happen under the hood, which is probably more significant that you really don’t notice, but I don’t know that I would want this dramatic change to the interface and in some ways I would say that the most interesting change in interface and operating system has happened in the voice area with Alexa and the Amazon Echo and those sorts of things where you have an interface without a screen, and that’s sort of interesting in a number of ways. But, the regular OS, I think there’s some nice new touches that we’ll talk about, but I don’t know that the right time that I would say, oh, I really want to run out and do that. I mean, I sort of install new operating system upgrades pretty quickly myself, and thankfully the best news in the operating systems upgrades these days as they are free which makes it a lot easier to make that change.

Tom Mighell: Well, I agree. I tend to want my operating system to not get in the way as well except when I do want it to get in the way. So when I wanted to let me know that I’m engaging in risky behavior when it can provide some help for me if I need help, and so, I think I want more from my operating system than you may want. I wanted to be more helpful than just a just a pretty background and a platform to run everything on, but that said, I routinely install upgrades too. I think I like to have the latest and greatest, I like to try things out, I want all the new bells and whistles, but I think this podcast is established. I am an early adopter. I like to do that, I like to try things out, but not everybody is like that.

My best example in the past couple of weeks, I got a new computer for my father who is still using the 2012 version of Quicken because it had just the right amount of features that he wanted and he was terrified about getting new features no matter how incremental or non-revolutionary they happen to be and I think that’s okay for certain types of software, but I don’t think that’s okay for operating systems, and I think probably the best reason why is security. By upgrading to a new version you’re going to be guaranteed security updates and fixes for the life of that product, but if you hang on to that older version of at least Windows software I’m pretty sure if Mac has got some vulnerabilities the older it gets, but certainly with Windows you’re going to be vulnerable to a number of security issues.

The older versions of Windows are the more attractive targets for hackers and other bad people, and so, I think you and I both would agree that it’s a good idea to upgrade, you don’t have to be the first, but in this case, I mean, with an operating system, aside from an application I tend to think that sooner is always going to be better than later.

Dennis Kennedy: Yeah, I think security is the main driver for me as well. I mean, I think I want to have the most modern platform so I don’t run into add issues and I can do things that are new. But I think security is the main thing, I think that I would hesitate and I have hesitated in the past. If I’m nursing along an older under-power computer I would be hesitant about going to the newest system without really checking out whether I was going to over text or cause some problems, but yeah, I am with you, Tom. If it’s out there, I am ready to install it.

Tom Mighell: So maybe let’s talk about kind of our first reactions, and I guess maybe because it’s the most recent talk about macOS first. Sierra was the name of the product that just got released in the past couple of weeks. Dennis, do you want to talk about your first reactions to it?

Dennis Kennedy: Well, I installed it, my computer started up and I was like — it looks exactly the same to me. So I was like, okay, so that made me realize that there are other things. First of all I had to kind of look into what the new features really were and that there was probably a lot more happening under the hood and I think that sort of what I learned is the continuing trend that we’re seeing in all platforms of all the PC platforms that they’re moving closer to the iOS and Android type approach. So that mobile and the PC are moving closer together and then I think you see the things in the hood that really allow your work to be synchronized across all the devices you have. I think those are sort of the main things but I think in the interface, I don’t — like I said nothing really jumped out at me although I know we’re going to talk about Siri and I’ll probably let you talk about that, but is there anything that jumped out and grabbed you?

(00:10:17)

Tom Mighell: I don’t think so. I mean, I think I’m happy to kind of jump in and talk about some of the new features. I agree with you. If we look at both of the upgrades, the one that had the greatest change interface-wise is Windows because Windows was really kind of trying to get away from the Windows 8 environment that people had reacted so negatively to and I really think that Windows 10, in my opinion, it’s been very successful. I think that it’s gotten to a point where it’s tried to modernize and it’s gotten a good combination of keeping things familiar and modernizing at the same time. So I tend to like that.

But coming back to Mac, I think that the one people are talking about the most is, is that Siri is now on the Mac and you can talk to Siri and have Siri dictate things for you, you can have it and not just not just dictate or do searches or – now you can actually have it do things on your computer, you can have it turn the brightness or the turn Wi-Fi on or off. Very similar things to what you could do on your mobile device.

But I guess my — I don’t know, I’m probably still a little bit less likely to use this tool or Cortana on my Windows machine because I sort of view assistance as being more useful and valuable in a mobile environment. I just seem — it feels to me more natural to hit a button and talk into my phone rather than hit a button and talk directly to my laptop or my computer just it doesn’t feel right yet, it may feel right in the future, but I don’t know, that’s just me, I don’t know, Dennis, I think you probably had a better or a different experience using Siri or Cortana on your devices.

Dennis Kennedy: As you say that I sort of feel that maybe it’s the third or fourth device perhaps for voice as we think about it. So I think you’re right, your mobile device, and then I think that Amazon Echo, those types of devices which I’m really used to using, and then possibly your TV device, I’ll call it, that could be your TV, but say your Apple TV, your Roku whatever that you can see voice becoming important there.

And then I think it’s sort of as you become more used to using those things, then I think what could happen on your PC is the voice will make a little bit more sense, but a lot of people might have — for things they do a lot, might have keyboard shortcuts, and they’re really used to what you click on with the mouse, you right-click, all that sort of thing. So to actually fire up Siri and to ask something may not be something you do, but I think if you find a few things that are helpful to you that could change your mind.

So one example I had, my first example of using Siri was I need to use the calculator to — it wasn’t like a totally complex calculation but it was not something I wanted to do in my head. So I needed to use the calculator and I couldn’t find it, where it was buried in the menus. So I ended up using — doing that calculation in the spreadsheet which felt sort of silly but then it was like, oh wait, there is Siri and I just said, “Open Calculator” and there it was, the calculator was there and I was going, well, that to me was actually useful because that’s probably something I know exists. So some of those utilities those sorts of things that I could just say open that and that will happen and that to me was a lot easier than trying to find it.

So that’s one thing that I think is interesting for voice. I know there are some other things people might do calendaring and other things like that, but the one that I think is potentially interesting to me is a little bit more sophisticated file search, and I haven’t tried this but I heard some podcast where people are talking about this where I can ask Siri to find the files that were done in last month, for example. Files I worked on in the last month or certain documents in a timeframe or — that sort of thing and I think you can also ask Siri to find pictures of a person.

And so I can see some things where you start to use it and with voice to me is – I think once you start using it then it either works for you really well or it doesn’t but you sort of need to find that use case that helps you. And I can see with Siri and Cortana both, the voice has some potential on the desktop or laptop.

(00:14:50)

Tom Mighell: Yeah, and I think as we were talking earlier what I’ve noticed between the two, between the macOS and the Windows is that there seems to be what I would think of is kind of a convergence between the two because both operating systems seem to be getting features that the other system has had for a while.

So for example, some of the changes under the hood for macOS is emptying the trash after 30 days if you want it, it will do it automatically, putting folders first in a list of files and folders. These are kind of minor changes but they’re things that Windows devices have done forever.

And then on the other side, Windows is just getting to some of the things like for example the virtual desktop, Apple has had that virtual desktop where you can choose among the different windows all the time. The Action Center is something that Windows 10 has now where you can pull out and you can see all of your notifications and everything, and that’s something that the Mac has had for a while now.

I am intrigued at how there’s kind of been they are coming closer together with the types of functionality that they have, they both approach it in slightly different ways, but I think that in their way they’re both being very successful with what they’re trying to introduce.

Dennis Kennedy: I think that convergence is really a good thing in a home computer. In my house my wife has the Windows 10 computer and I have a Mac and it’s just really easy to go between them, but I find that a lot of people — and this is like the law firm thing, the business thing where you say, at home I have the newest stuff and the newest operating system at work. I’m always behind.

Tom Mighell: Yeah.

Dennis Kennedy: So I think you do have that disconnect, so I don’t know in business like when people should expect to see Windows 10, it always seems like the IT department is testing and testing and testing to decide when they’re going to allow it, by that time there’s another OS that’s out. So I think that’s something to consider.

Also on the Mac side I want to touch around something time where there are some nice little touches and I think some of these things are individual, so it’s worth exploring them because you may find some things are really helpful to use same on Windows I would say, but the one I haven’t tried but I’m really looking to try and this is really the different type of convergence but it’s sort of saying, hey, what’s going on on all the devices is you can access from everywhere and there’s sort of all coming together.

I really like the notion that I can go to my MacBook and by wearing my Apple Watch I can unlock the computer when I get there without typing in a password. So I haven’t set that up or tried it but that to me is one of these little things, little conveniences I think I will grow to really, really like.

Tom Mighell: Yeah, I have a similar joy with my Windows device because Windows has Windows Hello, which it bases its entry on facial recognition and you train it, you have to train it to recognize your face and I’ve actually put this in front of other people and it won’t let them into the device. I haven’t seen whether this is a foolproof security, but I will say that just being able to — I mean the computer starts up and it says, “Please stare straight ahead” and you stare straight ahead and it recognizes you and opens up automatically. So I don’t even need to buy a watch to do that, just my face will do that.

Some of the features that I like — like you mentioned in macOS there’s more in the range of storage management, you’re able to now sync your documents to iCloud, you can actually delete your local copy if you want to clean off your hard drive, you can make your primary storage in iCloud and it’ll delete what you have locally. You can reduce clutter against something Microsoft used to do or has had for a while, you can now automatically delete larger files. There is a storage management feature actually Window now within Siri that’s got a lot of options that are available.

Some of the fun features include the fact that they now have a picture-in-picture video, which is something the iPad has now had for a while, so kind of showing how OS — the macOS and the iOS are sort of converging on their own. You can now have Apple Pay in Safari so you can use Apple Pay that way or you mentioned being able to synchronize across all devices, copy and paste now. You can copy something on one device and paste it onto your phone from your computer. I am glad that they’re finally catching up to Google Photos in their photos device being able to have facial recognition and creating memories and stuff like that.

So I think all-in-all there’s enough here to satisfy a Mac user without just being totally overwhelming with the amount of features. So I think in all in my opinion it’s a good upgrade.

Dennis Kennedy: And it’s free so that is very attractive.

Tom Mighell: Yeah.

(00:20:00)

Dennis Kennedy: And I think that when you are talking about the facial recognition on Windows, the same thing I am thinking about with the watches that there are some security issues, but the fact is — but I think you can over-think this, because most of the time we are using these things in our house and it’s not like really somebody is going to break in or somebody is going to be looking over our shoulder. But the convenience factor of, as we go to stronger and stronger passwords and all that sort of thing, invoking your Password Manager just to get on to your computer, at home it seems like these simple ways to do it Tom are —

Tom Mighell: But I think that this is also I think the first steps in moving away from passwords as security, and we may be getting to more secure ways of doing that, but I think that these are definitely good first steps.

Dennis Kennedy: Right. It is sort of a multifactor happening, but sort of very lightweight, and it doesn’t really creep into your awareness or cause you the problems that you sometimes think of when you are doing the multifactor, which is — someone once described multifactor means something you have and something that you forgot, which I think sometimes happens for people, because it can be really cumbersome despite the benefits of being multifactor.

So Tom, I want to ask like, what do you think this all means in the big picture, because I start to wonder like, well, is this annual OS upgrade starting to be a thing of the past, does it matter that much, is it incremental, is it just kind of helpful because it just bundles all these improvements that happen over the year and you do it once, or as we move more and more to the cloud, do the OSs on the laptops and PCs really matter, and as we move more mobile, does it really matter? What’s your reaction to that?

Tom Mighell: Yeah, I think that we are already starting to see, not just with operating systems, but with other types of software, we are seeing less of the big splash releases, where they introduce a lot of new features and more of the incremental releases, where they do a little bit at a time.

It’s interesting, I am finding, just as a side, I am finding with Microsoft Office, with my Office 365 account every time it updates and I open Word or Excel for the first time, I get a little pop-up window that say, new in this release, and it gives you one or two little new things that it can do now; nothing major, but just something useful or helpful. And I find that very interesting that it’s constantly updating and fixing itself, which I think is great.

I think that we are going to start to see that more and more with OSs. I think that Apple has really gone a long way by making it free, by making it sort of no big deal. Windows is probably a little bit more in your face about it, forcing people or trying to force people to upgrade to Windows 10. I think that there is still a ways to go there, but I think that’s kind of how we are moving.

I also tend to agree with you that that OS may not matter in a world that we are in the cloud so much, although I would argue that that might only apply to something like Windows or a Mac, because if I think of the cloud OS, which is Chrome OS, one that we haven’t really talked about, there are those Chromebooks that you can buy, where you are basically using a browser for everything. So you use Google Docs, but you are actually using the cloud for every single thing that you do. And I haven’t really found the utility for me in that, because there are a lot of applications I rely on that I couldn’t get on a Chromebook, that I couldn’t install because the operating system doesn’t support it.

So I think that a cloud-only strategy is not enough. I think that that does make the OS important, because there are applications that work on one platform that may not work as well on other platforms. I am not a big fan of Office, Microsoft Office for the Mac. It’s much better than it used to be, but it’s still in my opinion not as good as the Windows version of Microsoft Office. So I think to a certain extent, I think the operating system does matter.

Dennis Kennedy: I guess that I think over time it might matter less, but I think you are right, and I look at the transparency of the operating system, the stability of it. I mean, we haven’t touched on the Linux and the other open -source operating systems, but I could see for myself if I had a totally solid operating system and I was in the cloud, that would be a nice computer to have, and that’s sort of the Chrome OS idea.

But I think we are still moving. We are sort of heavy on devices. I think of law firms where they are running an OS or two behind, they are not getting to the cloud only approach in any time very soon. So I think there is a way to go, but it’s an interesting trend to watch.

(00:24:49)

I guess conclusion and recommendations time for me. I am still a big believer in going to the newest system, with all deliberate speed, so I don’t think you need to install it on the first day, but sort of once you wait a few days and see there is no big issues coming up, I am like full speed ahead. But I would have some concerns, like I say, with an older machine that I am nursing along, I might not do it, but anybody else, I am full speed ahead.

Tom Mighell: I tend to agree except there is one difference I think we are seeing more often. I think that our advice in past years would have been, don’t install it until after the first service pack, at least for a Windows platform. We don’t really see the service packs the same way that we saw them before. They have Update Tuesdays once or twice a month. They had their anniversary update a year after releasing Windows 10, where they put out a whole bunch of changes.

And so I tend to agree, I wouldn’t necessarily download something on day one, but pay attention to the news, look and see if there is any problems with it, give them a chance. Because a lot of times both Microsoft and Apple will roll out some fixes shortly after that, let them do that, but then dive in, because I think it pays to do that sooner rather than later.

Before we move on to our next segment, let’s take a quick break for a message from our sponsor.

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Tom Mighell: And now, let’s get back to The Kennedy-Mighell Report. I am Tom Mighell.

Dennis Kennedy: And I am Dennis Kennedy. Lots of rumors lately that Twitter will be acquired. Some of the most recent rumors I have heard involve Google and Disney.

Tom and I have been on Twitter for a long, long time. I thought we might reflect on where Twitter has been and where it might be going, our current use of Twitter and how that might change if Twitter is actually acquired by somebody.

Tom, if somebody buys Twitter, will you still be tweeting?

Tom Mighell: Well, I think it depends to a certain extent on who does the acquiring, and the reason that they are doing the acquiring. If it’s a company that wants to use Twitter to augment its current services and let Twitter be Twitter, then I think I am more optimistic.

The last rumor that I have heard is that it might be Google. I have heard Disney, but I don’t know that Disney is serious. To me, Google seems a little bit more serious, and I have to say that that makes me a little bit nervous frankly, given Google’s track record in giving up on projects. I mean, Google Wave, I don’t want to make you cry here openly, but they give up a lot on things; Google Reader, or just looking how they handled Google+ would give me concern about them taking on another social network.

But whoever it is, I have got to say, I have got to say if I can sit on a soapbox for a minute, I really would want whatever company that buys it to do a better job of tackling what I think is one of the biggest problems with Twitter, and that is what I consider to be the rampant trolling by people who really just are really awful on there. I think it’s better than it was before. Twitter has implemented some reforms, but people are allowed to say and treat people in what I think is just a horrific way, and basically get away with it.

And I realize that there is some First Amendment issues here, and so I tread on this very carefully, but when I was more active on Twitter and I was just talking about legal technology stuff, I got trolled by people who laughed at the types of technology things I was talking about, and it was — I don’t consider myself to be incredibly sensitive, but it really did make me use Twitter a lot less than I would otherwise.

But I guess coming back to the main question, I think no matter who buys Twitter or whether Twitter stays on its own, I am still going to be using the service. I mean unless for some reason the company decides to totally do away with it in favor of something else. I am tending to use Twitter, because I still think that it’s one of the best social networking tools out there, Dennis.

Dennis Kennedy: So my fear is always that somebody is going to buy Twitter and just say what we are going to do with Twitter, it’s another channel to just slam ads at Dennis, and Twitter is already kind of evolving in that direction, as it is with promoted tweets and all these sorts of things. So that’s my big concern.

And then how it gets integrated into something else. It may go in a different direction than I want. So I like the real time aspect of it. I mean, I think on real time news, Twitter is amazing. And when you want to see what people think about sporting events, TV shows, it’s almost like you are watching people together. And that’s sort of when people talk about Disney as an acquirer, that’s I think the aspect of it that people point to.

(00:30:05)

But I am a little bit concerned, like I said, about the ad model. It seems like as these things evolve or somebody takes them over, one of the things that goes away is the classic thing that I like, which is the reverse chronological, simple order thing, and I worry about that going. That’s already starting to go with Twitter.

So I am a little bit concerned, and I have got to say, I probably will be tweeting in a way, but I am already thinking that it could be I am going to start to move some of the things that I do on Twitter down to LinkedIn or Facebook, and I think the acquisition of Twitter could accelerate that for me.

Now it’s time for our Parting Shots, that one tip, website, or observation that you can use the second this podcast ends. Tom, take it away.

Tom Mighell: So you may have heard in the past couple of weeks that Google introduced a new messaging app; yes, another new messaging app, it’s called Google Allo, and it’s A-L-L-O, and I think it’s worth a look. It may not be something that you ultimately wind up using a lot, and before all the security people come up and say it’s not secure, yes, I know Edward Snowden hates it and Google has kind of walked back some of its privacy promises that they made at the front, I think it is a fascinating look at how AI and how bots are going to be working in the future, because you can use the Google Assistant within Allo to augment your conversations with people.

You can be having a conversation with somebody and say, hey, let’s go and have some Italian food and you can bring the Google Assistant into your conversation who can recommend Italian restaurants near you and even make reservations for you if you want.

The Assistant is, I think, one of the more advanced bots and assistance that we have seen. When you are texting someone it will suggest replies for you to give to that person. It will also have conversations with you, where you can actually ask it to do things for you, remind you about things, create subscriptions where it sends you news items; it can do a whole lot of very interesting things.

The unfortunate thing is, is that you have both got to be using Allo. It’s not really that useful. You can send text messages to people using it, but they don’t really get the benefit of it unless they are using the app itself. It is available for both Android and iOS devices. So download it. It’s free. It’s a lot of fun to at least try out, even if you don’t become a hardcore user of it.

Dennis Kennedy: And Tom, I am going to try to sneak two Parting Shots in this time, which I think I have started to make a habit of. So usually I have been thinking a lot about digital marketing for some reason lately and I have listened to two podcasts over the past weekend that I thought were especially good.

So one I think is a good podcast overall for anybody who does speaking. It’s from the National Speakers Association. They have Voices of Experience podcast. The October 2016 one I thought was especially good, and one of the interviews was about SEO, which is usually for me one of the most boring topics there can be, but this one, the slant on it was really, really interesting to me and it was worth listening and it made me think.

So it was talking about this movement away from — and it traced the evolution of keywords a bit, but I think the movement away from keywords to optimizing your site for the types of questions that people would ask, and I think this could become more important as voice comes into the way that people do search. So that was very interesting. I totally recommend that.

The other one was a podcast I really liked from Mitch Joel called Six Pixels of Separation. So this podcast had — he interviewed Sally Hogshead who has written a book called ‘How to Fascinate’. But she talks about the notion of making people fascinating, and so how can you align what you are doing, your product or service in a way that it makes someone feel that it makes them more fascinating to people. And it’s a really interesting discussion, and I think as we look at how you go to client-centered law practice and how you market in a way that appeals to clients rather than markets in an internal facing sort of way, this podcast has some really interesting points to make on that.

Tom Mighell: And that wraps it up for this edition of The Kennedy-Mighell Report. Thanks for joining us on the podcast. You can find show notes for this episode at  HYPERLINK “http://www.tkmreport.com” tkmreport.com.

If you like what you hear, please subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or on the Legal Talk Network site, where you can find archives of all of our previous podcasts.

If you would like to get in touch with us, please email us at  HYPERLINK “mailto:tkmreport@gmail.com” tkmreport@gmail.com or send us a tweet. I am @TomMighell and Dennis is @denniskennedy. So until the next podcast, I am Tom Mighell.

Dennis Kennedy: And I am Dennis Kennedy, and you have been listening to The Kennedy-Mighell Report, a podcast on legal technology with an Internet focus. Help us out by telling a couple of your friends and colleagues about the podcast.

Outro: Thanks for listening to The Kennedy-Mighell Report. Check out Dennis and Tom’s book, ‘The Lawyer’s Guide to Collaboration Tools and Technologies: Smart Ways to Work Together’ from ABA Books or Amazon, and join us every other week for another edition of The Kennedy-Mighell Report, only on the Legal Talk Network.

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