Discussion with Melissa Johnson, Past President of the San Diego Bar Association

Episode Notes

Transcript

Amanda Arriaga:

Welcome to another special bonus episode of Leading theBar at the NCBP midyear meeting. In February of 2024, I had the great fortune to interview leaders from across the country for the Austin Bar Podcast Council of Firsts. Today we are airing the discussion I had with Melissa Johnson, past president of the San Diego Bar Association. I’m here again with Lynette Paczkowski, my co-host and follow council member of NCBP. Now Lynette, we know Melissa pretty well. What did you think about this chat?

Lynette Paczkowski:

You know that I love Melissa and I am so excited for all of our listeners to hear your chat with her. It’s just such a solid reminder of what a good person she is. I loved her origin story of everything, how she became a lawyer, how she ended up in Bar Leadership. It’s a wonderful conversation and highlights just taking your circumstances and deciding how to maximize them for yourself and for everyone around you.

Amanda Arriaga:

Yeah, she’s a literal sports icon. She is the loveliest person. When we were with her in Astoria recently, she’s just the most relatable person. We had a dinner and we started just singing songs at dinner, and I was so impressed that my girl, Melissa, every pop song I started singing, she knew it and she knew what joke we were making in it. So I love everything about this girl,

Lynette Paczkowski:

What is not to love, and I love that she fits that common theme. Say yes, show up, and you never know where you’re going to end up. I just feel like she is open to opportunities and open to sharing her experiences with others, and that makes a really quality person for us to be able to consider a colleague and a friend.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, I know that the audience is going to look forward to this very much, and so let’s let him hear it.

Lynette Paczkowski:

Here we go.

Amanda Arriaga:

Welcome to the next episode of the Austin Bar Association’s Council of Firsts. I’m your host, Amanda Ariaga, first Latina bar president. In today’s episode, we’re doing something a little bit different. We’ve partnered with the National Conference for Bar presidents to do a series of interviews with bar leaders from around the country here in Louisville, Kentucky. So I’m happy to introduce you to all of these leaders that you might not know because they’re not from Austin. Melissa Johnson is the immediate past president of the San Diego County Bar Association and serves with me on the Executive Council of the National Conference for Bar Presidents. She also serves on the executive board of the California Employment Lawyers Association, the Preeminent Bar Association for California Plaintiff’s Employment Attorneys. Melissa is a partner at Johnson Heater, LLP, where she primarily focuses on employment law. She’s a graduate of the University of California San Diego, the Thomas Jefferson School of Law, and is a veteran of the force. Melissa has also been appointed as commissioner of the County of San Diego Civil Service Commission. She gives back to her community and has given back to her country. I’m so happy to have with us today, Melissa Johnson. Melissa, thank you for being with us today. You’re welcome. I’m so excited to continue our chat. Thank you. And I want to start with why did you want to be a lawyer?

Melissa Johnson:

Wow, that’s a great question. When I was 10 years old, I had followed a case. I’m from New Jersey, and I’d followed a case where the National Organization for Women had sued boys Little League Baseball because little League Baseball had a policy, no girls allowed. And the national organization realized that Little League Baseball was playing using public parks that were funded with public money and they were allowing girls to play. And so they sued, and that went all the way up to the Supreme Court in my state, and I’d watched that case and the Supreme Court says, you have to let girls play. And that case, I mean literally it changed my life. It let me know that under no uncertain terms, that if I was given the opportunity to literally play on the same field as the boys, that I could be as good as them and better than them, and I could compete if I was only given the chance. And that case told me, and it showed me under no uncertain terms what lawyers and the law and the courts can do to improve people’s lives. And literally when I was 10, I wanted to be a lawyer because I saw what the law did for me, and it was just a wonderful experience.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, and it turns out it not only inspired you to be a lawyer, but I did some research on you and you actually are a ball playing superstar. I happened to know that it’s not just that you thought that if you could compete, you would do well, you did do

Melissa Johnson:

Well. I did. I did. I made the All-Star team every year I went to high school and literally high school was the first time I’d ever touched a softball. It was like, what’s this big thing? My high school softball team won the Jersey State Championship. That was really awesome. I played when I was in the Air Force and got to travel around Europe playing ball. It was just a wonderful experience, and it’s created such bonds for me with people that 30 years later, they’re still in my

Amanda Arriaga:

Life. And I understand that your time in the Air Force helped shaped why you wanted to be an employment lawyer. Tell us a little bit about that.

Melissa Johnson:

Oh, good lord. Sure. Instead of going to college on a softball scholarship, for some reason I just decided that military service was what I wanted to do. And so I enlisted in the Air Force literally when I was 17, my parents had to sign for me because I was only 17. And so I went in and I ended up being the subject of me and a lot of other people. I had traveled around England because that’s where I was stationed playing ball. And I met a bunch of people from other bases and somebody that I knew, somebody who basically dropped a bunch of names to avoid prosecution as I understand it for something else, dropped a bunch of names. And mine was one of the names they dropped. And so I ended up getting discharged from the Air Force involuntarily discharged because of my sexual orientation.

And truth be told, I probably would’ve stayed in 30, 35 years and maybe sitting here, probably wouldn’t be sitting here because my life would be very different, but probably a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, maybe even a colonel. But the experience of getting kicked out and there was nothing I could do about it. There were no laws to protect me, none whatsoever, made me understand that people get discriminated against at work. And it was really my first time ever having been discriminated against where there wasn’t something that could have been done. And it really pushed me toward representing workers because I was the victim of, and I’ve accomplished a lot. I went to law school, I’ve been the president of a bar association. I’ve done a lot of good things. I’ve received awards, and it’s just a testament to the fact that the military kicked out good people, really, really good people. And my plan B worked okay for me, but a lot of people it didn’t. And they really struggled. And that struggle just led me to know that workers need representation and it really put a fire, just a huge fire under me to be able to advocate for workers who have been discriminated against at work. So I thank the Air Force for that and facetiously of course, but that bad experience led me to many good things.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, if you don’t hear it all the time, thank you for your service. I hope that the audience will write in and comment. And thank you for your service as well. Thank you. And while that experience was awful, I do think that it probably helps make you a lawyer that will vigorously advocate for your clients. So it did something for the rest of the world that happened.

Melissa Johnson:

And thank you. It was probably 30 years before I would even ever, in fact, in November, it was 40 years ago that I got kicked out, and it was probably 30 years before I would even talk about it. I just tucked it away. It was a terrible experience. It was traumatic for me. It still makes me emotional when I talk about it 40 years later. And now, I never used to say I was a proud military. I never used to say I was a proud veteran because I, I was not proud of what my country did to me when they kicked me out. But now I am. And when I go to baseball games and they ask veterans to stand, I never would before. And now I do and I cheer and I get people around me riled up. And it’s a very different experience now, but it didn’t used to be. And so thank you for that.

Amanda Arriaga:

Of course. And so now we will pivot because in this sliding doors moment that happened to you in your life, you end up as a lawyer. You’re in California and you become president of the San Diego County Bar Association. I do. Why was that important to you?

Melissa Johnson:

Well, it was interesting because I initially ran to be the chair of the Labor and Employment section, and mostly that section in the San Diego County Bar Association is dominated by defense lawyers. And so we didn’t have programming that was important to plaintiff’s lawyers. And so I ran because I thought, well, I can try to change that. Well, as just a regular member at large, I wasn’t able to change it. So I was like, well, I’m going to run for chair. And then I was able to change it. And then when I was chair, I got encouraged to run for the board and I thought, yeah, I’ll never win, but I did. And so I got put on the board. And then once I was on the board, I thought I’m one of about 10 people who is actually eligible to even be the president of the San Diego County Bar.

And San Diego County has about 16,000 lawyers, and one every year gets to be the president. And I thought as president and anybody who tells you that they do things for completely altruistic reasons is lying, or maybe they’re just not being honest with themselves. But one of the reasons I wanted to be the president of the board or theBar is because it would give me a platform. It would make my voice louder when I advocate for workers’ rights, which I do often have a little bit more credibility behind what I say doesn’t mean that it’s more credible. It just means that last year I was the president of theBar. What I said meant more, and I will forever be a past president of the San Diego County Bar. And forever what I say, I can speak with a more amplified voice. And that’s really one of the reasons that I wanted to be the president of San Diego County Bars, is to be able to amplify my voice and talk about discrimination at work and talk about workers’ rights and maybe make a more impactful statement about that.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, and here another example of if you have an interest, if you want to serve in a leadership role, the cream rises to the top. So you only wanted to be chair of Labor and employment, but then you did a great job. You were a hard worker, and they said, do more leave. Exactly. And

Melissa Johnson:

If you’re interested, there are leadership opportunities. Exactly. And even in my capacity as president last year, I was able to find people and people I know who would make really good leaders and say, you need to run for this, and you let me appoint you to this. You should be a leader. And almost nobody says, no. They just need to be asked. And even if you’re not asked and you’re that person, run, get involved, put yourself out there and work hard. And literally by the time I had put my name in to be and said, Hey, I want to be the president of theBar. I had worked hard. I’d been on almost every committee that we have. I learned a lot about our organization, and I was really well situated to do it by the time that time came. Between your bar experience

Amanda Arriaga:

And your legal experience, you’ve seen a lot. Do you the legal community is on the right track to becoming more in favor of diversity,

Melissa Johnson:

Equity, and inclusion? I sure hope so during my term as president in the San Diego County Bar Association, I was able to create a seat on our board for our DEI chair actually. I was able to create a seat on the board. And then as a second thing that we did was I was able to fill that seat with our DEI chair. That was really impactful. And it puts our money where our mouth is and actually gives that person a seat at the table. We have three law schools in San Diego. One of them lost their a, A accreditation. They’re still California accredited, and we have a diverse diversity fellowship program that required the student to go to an A accredited school. Well, that policy, when we made it included all three of our law schools once that law school lost their accreditation. So did all of those students lose their ability to participate in that program.

And one of the things that I worked on for probably two and a half years, even before I was president of ette, was trying to change policy and change people’s way of thinking because a lot of people thought, well, just tell ’em to go get their A accreditation back. It’s not that easy. And so I worked really hard to change people’s minds about that and change the way people perceived it. And we were able actually last year to amend our policy to make it so that California accredited law students could actually participate in that program again. And I think that’s a great accomplishment. I think to some extent, bar leaders are afraid now because DEI is being attacked. And I mean, I was watching the news here the night I got here, and there’s a bill pending in Kentucky where it would eliminate DEI offices in local colleges and universities.

And that’s got support. And that’s scary. And I think some of the cases that have come down have really scared law firms and bar associations and made them think that, well, are we going to be sued if we create DEI programs? And so I’d like to say we’re moving in the right direction, but I think there is a threat that people are taking seriously regarding that. What does NCBP mean to you in light of all of this? Man, NCBP is awesome. I got involved when I was the president elect of the San Diego County Bar Association and we’re all leaders. And we’ve come a long way. And it’s just incredible to see people who are past presidents of bar associations who are still involved for years, decades after they’ve been presidents. And so NCBP is a great place to learn, to learn about leadership when you’re one of those newer leaders.

And it’s a great place to continue to come so that you can teach the newer law related association leaders and to learn the things that we learned when we were new leaders. It’s just a great place to learn. It’s a great place to collaborate. I’ve learned so much here from people that are leaders at other bar associations, and I’ve been able to take those things, those lessons back to my Bar Association. I actually serve on the executive committee of the California Employment Lawyers Association as well. And I’d been able to take those lessons back to that organization too, and it’s been awesome. What advice do you have for lawyers who’d like to follow in your footsteps? Get involved. Get involved. Don’t be afraid. When I first ran for the executive committee of the San Diego County Bar Association’s Labor and employment section, I was afraid.

I was afraid I would lose and I won. And then when I ran against a defense attorney for the section chair, and once again, I was afraid I would lose, but I ran and I won. And when I ran for the board, it was the same thing when I ran for president, it was the same thing. And I was actually at the Louisville Slugger Museum yesterday, and there was a quote from, I think Babe Brute that said, don’t let the fear of striking out scare you, which is kind of meaningful because many times people don’t do things because they’re afraid of failure. You’ll never succeed if you don’t try. And so I would say get involved. Go to bar events, make friends, collaborate, network with people, and if you think you want to be involved in leadership, do it. And if somebody asks you, there’s probably a reason that they’ve asked you, say yes, and then go from there.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, I think the hashtag of your episode is going to be say yes. Thank you for saying yes to be on this podcast. I appreciate you so much.

Melissa Johnson:

Absolutely. Thank you so much.