Discussion with Juan Thomas, Past President of the National Bar Association and President Elect of NCBP

Episode Notes

Transcript

Amanda Arriaga:

Welcome to another special bonus episode of Leading the Bar at the NCBP mid-year meeting in February of 2024. I had the great fortune to interview leaders from across the country for the Austin Bar Podcast Council of Firsts. Today we are airing the discussion I had with Juan Thomas, former president of the National Bar Association. I’m here again with Patrick Palace, president of the National Conference of Bar Presidents. Patrick Juan is your president life this year. What’d you think of this chat?

Patrick Palace:

I thought it was really interesting because it’s a snapshot in time. Here we are back to February of 2024. Our president is Biden. We’re a year from the election for those people that were Kansas City Chiefs fans, they just won the Super Bowl, right? And I think when you listen to this podcast, you have to listen to it with a little historical significance. What were we talking about at the time? What was important at that time? I think Juan’s discussion really captures, encapsulates what was going on then. And it’s still relevant today, but when you listen to it, I think it’s particularly dramatic.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, and these are all meant to be a time capsule and the theory behind the Council of first podcast was that it be, this is your life about the guest. And so we get to hear about why Baby Juan Thomas wanted to be a lawyer, why he wanted to be a leader, and all of the changes that he has made while he has been such a leader. So these are always meant to be looked back as a retrospective. That is why we did them, and I think that the audience will love it.

Patrick Palace:

Well, I’d also note that Juan is a really incredible leader. I think he kind of made himself very recognizable as the president of the National Bar Association. He’s a brilliant speaker and orator and in the National Bar, which is a predominantly black bar, has a different mission than the National Council of Bar Presidents, the National Bar, and I’ll just read some of this because I think it’s important. Their mission is to advance the science of jurisprudence, uphold the honor of the profession, foster fellowship among members, and to protect the civil and political rights of all citizens across the United States. And that’s an important part of your conversation that you two talk about. And I think that history with him at the National Bar is important there because it gives him that life experience and that focus that you talk about really in great detail. I think in an important part of this podcast

Amanda Arriaga:

And maybe what listeners won’t get is not only is Juan a statesman, but he’s also really fun to hang out with and to chat with. So if y’all have a chance to talk to him behind the scenes, please do so. We just came back from a retreat in Astoria, Oregon, and I made some t-shirts for some of the girls and he wants one of those because he wants to be part of the club that everyone is part of. So he wants to be with you. He wants to hang out with you. Please call him and hit him up so that he can do that with you.

Patrick Palace:

He is one of the more likable guys that you’ll ever meet. Anyway, it was a great podcast. I can’t wait for him else to hear it. And bravo, Amanda. Nicely done putting this together. Let’s share it with everybody again.

Amanda Arriaga:

Okay, let’s listen in. Welcome to the next episode of the Austin Bar Association’s Council of First I’m your host, Amanda Arriaga, first Latina bar president. In today’s episode, we’re doing something a little bit different. We’ve partnered with the National Conference for Bar Presidents to do a series of interviews with bar leaders from around the country here in Louisville, Kentucky. So I’m happy to introduce you to all of these leaders that you might not know because they’re not from Austin. Juan Thomas is the current secretary of the National Conference of Bar Presidents. He was the 75th president of the National Bar Association, past chair of the American Bar Association, civil Rights and Social Justice section, and is currently the third vice president of the Illinois Bar Foundation, which will make him only the second African-American lawyer to be in line to become president of that organization since its creation in 1951.

He also represents the Illinois State Bar Association in the American Bar Association’s House of Delegates, making him the second African-American lawyer in IBAs 148 year history to serve in that way. Juan is of counsel to Quinto Wood and Boyer PA and is the founder and principal of the Thomas Law Group. He’s been named as one of the top 100 trial lawyers by the National Black Lawyers. Was named the class of 2023 Men of Excellence by the Chicago Defender won the Katie Holmes Educational Foundation Public Service Award for leadership and Service in the community in 2018. And he is one of this year’s American Bar Association’s Spirit of Excellence award winners, which celebrates the efforts and accomplishments of lawyers who work to promote a more racially and ethnically diverse legal profession. I’m honored to have with us today Juan Thomas. Juan, thank you so much for being here today. I want to start at the beginning. Why did you want to be a lawyer?

Juan Thomas:

When I was nine years old, my parents bought me for my birthday, a stack of presidential trivia cards. And so at the time Jimmy Carter was president. And so I read about all the presidents and I said, you know what? None of these guys look like me. So I began to read about them and wanted to figure out, well, how do they become president? And I realized most were either farmers, particularly early presidents, or they were lawyers. Some were both. And because I grew up having asthma, I knew I didn’t want to be outside on a farm. And so I went the route of becoming a lawyer. And I’m still mad today because Barack Obama beat me to it.

Amanda Arriaga:

But a theme a little bit of your career is you could end up being the second.

Juan Thomas:

That’s right.

Amanda Arriaga:

And so I’m looking forward to that.

Juan Thomas:

We’ll see.

Amanda Arriaga:

So while you were president of the National Bar Association, you created the first L-G-B-T-Q lawyer. Why was that expansion of inclusion so important to you?

Juan Thomas:

Well, to be honest with you, it was not on my radar initially. But during my bar leadership service, I was attending other National Affinity Bar meetings like HNBA, NABA Naba, and each of them had a section or division for the LGBTQ plus legal community. The NBA did not. In fact, candidly, there had been resistance to that in the NBA for many years, and that goes back to some of the more traditional cultural and religious values that many of our members have and still have in the NBA. But I decided after seeing what my friends were doing in the Hispanic National Bar and N PABA and other spaces that the NBA needs to move into the 21st century and be more inclusive. And then I was told there was a community of lawyers in the BA were part of the LGBTQ plus community, but did not come out at NBA conventions and events. I found that fascinating that they were there but not organized. And so I worked with a few people who were committed to helping me make this happen. And we got that done literally at my last board meeting as president, we passed a resolution to create a division for the LGBTQ plus members of our profession, and now they have a seat on our Board of Governors, a voting seat, and they’ve been very active for the last five or six years now. We’re very proud of that.

Amanda Arriaga:

What a wonderful legacy to know that your bar already is about inclusion and that you had to expand it because you realize there’s now a subset of people that needed to be included very overtly.

Juan Thomas:

Right. And to this day, I am finding that while we have the division, we still have to be more inclusive around our environment or our culture within the association because there are still people that don’t always feel comfortable being totally open and expressive as to who they are. So we’re still working on that, but we do have the division that’s been created and like I said, they’re on the board of Governor.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, congratulations to you for that. Thank you. One of the other things that you co-founded was the National Commission for Voter Justice to address voter suppression across the country while advancing electoral reform and civic engagement. And you did that in 2017. Do you think that is even more important today?

Juan Thomas:

Oh, it’s critically important. Even more today, and sadly, I always say I was the first NBA president whose term was completely under the presidency of Donald Trump. I know this is not a political podcast, but it did raise some challenges for our association because previous president was a lot more friendly to our interest than President Trump. And so when he was openly trying to what I call promote voter suppression under the guise of voter integrity, that was just a code language for voter suppression. We formed this coalition with Barbara Arwine and Jesse Jackson Sr at Rainbow Push, and they’re still working on that to this day to make sure that people have the right to vote and that voting is open and inclusive and that we have integrity in our process. And unfortunately during that time, it was a deliberate effort trying to undermine the electoral process. And we saw that in obvious ways that still is manifest itself today. I was troubled to see recently that two thirds of Republican voters in Iowa believe that Joe Biden is not the legitimate president of the United States. That’s problematic. And so I think we still have work to do in this space. I think this year’s election will be quite telling in this space. And so I’m very proud of the work that we did back in 2017. That’s continued to this day.

Amanda Arriaga:

Why do you think this is such a controversial topic? I know one of the things we’re talking about with NCBP is the rule of law, democracy, free and fair elections. Why are these phrases controversial, contr as lawyers they shouldn’t be?

Juan Thomas:

Well, America’s changing and the fact that you and I are having this discussion today is a reflection of that change. We have to decide if we’re going to be a multicultural, a multi-generational, a multi sexual orientation, multi-religious faith democracy, will we be a democracy for everyone or just a select few? And there are those candidly who want to take us back to a time where people like you and me would not be at the table when decisions are being made. But I think those days are over and that that’s the struggle, that’s the core. It comes out in many ways an attack on DNI attack on women’s rights, the attack on what we teach our children in school. All of these issues at the core of it is will we be a democracy for everyone? And candidly, There are Those who never wanted us to be at the table. And so those forces are still alive and well in this country. Hopefully shrinking in number, shrinking in influence, shrinking in impact, but still significant. And so I don’t take anything for granted. And sadly, the work of our generation is to not only protect the rights that our grandparents and parents fought for, but to also to continue to advance rights to be more inclusive in this multicultural multi-ethnic democracy.

Amanda Arriaga:

I feel like hashtag of your episode is going to be democracy for everyone, and there is nothing controversial about that.

Juan Thomas:

That’s right, that’s right.

Amanda Arriaga:

So when we met and got to chat in Minneapolis in September, one thing that we talked about is how it is strange that we still have legal firsts and seconds in our profession, in our bar associations. You are in line to be only the second African-American president of the Illinois State Bar Foundation. That’s right. So seeing what you’ve seen, do you think the legal community is on the right track to being more diverse, equitable and inclusive?

Juan Thomas:

We’re at a crossroads. I think in light of last year’s Supreme Court decision that struck down affirmative action affirm affirmative law firms, law schools, our profession generally is really concern. And a lot of people have kind of taken a let’s step back and reassess this approach. And so we have to, those of us who are committed to this work, those of us who are committed to de and I have to move the ball forward and not allow what I call a false narrative. This idea of a colorblind society, which I think is just code for white supremacy being maintained and manifested, have to push inclusion and diversity and equity and belonging. And so let me name the first president of Illinois Bar Foundation, the audible judge Vincent Cornelius out of Juliet, Illinois. He’s a dear friend of mine and he’s been a mentor to me and he is living the life that I hope to also want to impart to your listeners, which is if you’re the first, don’t be the last.

And so he’s been a mentor to me to make sure that he was the first, but now that I’m the third vice president of the foundation, he won’t be the last. And so my job will be to go find a third. We’ve never had an African-American woman as president of the foundation that needs to change. So I’ve got work to do in that regard. So I think particularly in theBar world, there are still many. First Judge Cornelius is also the first and only African-American president of the Illinois State Bar Association, only one. This is Illinois Chicago. You’d think in the Chicago we’d have a lot more. Now we have a metro bar, the Chicago Bar Association. They’ve had many African-American presidents and many women have been president of the metro bar. But the state bar, Vince is the only black man to ever be president. We’re about to have our first woman of color, her name is Sonny Williams. She becomes president this June. We have work to do in my state, and I’ve learned through NCBP. A lot of states are still having these. First Florida just elected its first black woman to be the Florida State Bar president in 2023. So we have a long way to go. And for those who have de and I fatigue, I’m sorry. With all due respect, get over it. You have a long way to go.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, thank you for all you’re doing and for knowing that to be the second, you must get the third.

Juan Thomas:

That’s right.

Amanda Arriaga:

Because this is sort of a never ending chain of there are wonderful people who could be leaders. We just need to put them in the right place to be identified and noticed.

Juan Thomas:

Open the door for ’em and let their talents speak for themselves.

Amanda Arriaga:

Speaking of leaders, what does NCBP mean to you?

Juan Thomas:

NCBP for me is what I call iron sharpening iron. It is like-minded leaders coming together to grow and improve and continue. What a mentor said to me many years ago, being a lifelong learner, I’m always looking for new lessons, new insights, new perspectives on how to not only be a better leader, but to be a better lawyer, be a better person, be a better husband, a better brother, a better uncle, a better son. So I like being around people that share those common values. We may not always agree on policy or even perspective or approach, but I think this organization helps me connect with people who have what I call high ideals and want to grow and do better. And so I love the family, I love the community and honored to be a part of it.

Amanda Arriaga:

It was interesting when I came into my first meeting in September, it was almost like walking into an AP class where it’s the leaders of leaders and you might feel like a weirdos sometime that you want to make change and you have big ideas, you have new initiative and then you walk into this AP class and everyone is like you. And it’s so fun to know that there is this peer model that exists that we can learn from.

Juan Thomas:

Yes, absolutely.

Amanda Arriaga:

What advice do you have for lawyers who’d like to follow in your footsteps?

Juan Thomas:

Think twice. No, seriously. I think if you want to be a bar leader or a leader in our profession more generally, I think it’s important to focus on relationships. I have discovered, I tell this when I was NBA president, I went to many law schools around the country talking to the boss of chapters in Illinois. We have nine law schools, and I spoke at eight of them during my presidency. And I focused my remarks always on what I call the lie. Here’s the lie that we are told in the black community. And I think is also true in the Latino community, that if you work hard, get a good education, stay out of trouble and go to good schools, you’ll be successful. Well, that’s a lie. Here’s why that’s a lie. It’s only Half true. There’s another part of that to lie by omission.

And the other part is the importance of relationships, developing genuine relationships that’ll open up doors that will give you opportunities and bring you into the table. And that is not always taught to people in our communities, we’re taught to just focus on ourselves and what I call rugged individualism. No build relationships. Our white allies, that’s what they do and they support each other and

Open up doors for each other. When I was a young lawyer, I’ll never forget this, one of my best friends in law school was a Jewish young man. And I went to him. I had my own practice. I wanted to see if he’d let me be his lawyer. And his instinctive response was, oh, well you’re a great guy. I love you. But our family business, we’ve always done business with. My dad’s buddy who he went to, I think they went to high school together and they were all Jewish. And he was telling me how candidly they support and do business with each other. Not to offend anyone else, but they support their own first. We’re not taught that. We’re taught that’s a problem. That’s problematic. We’re reverse racism. No, you support those come from your community, how you grow together. And so I would say to anyone that wants to do this work is to focus on not only doing well, being a competent lawyer, don’t get in trouble. All that’s true, but develop and build and nurture relationships. And the way you nurture a relationship is when you reach out to someone, when you don’t want Anything from them. Too often there are people that we only hear from when you want something

Or you need something. But hey, when I’m in Austin, I should give you a call just to get together and have dinner, have lunch. I don’t want anything. I’m not looking for business. I’m in your town. Reach out, send a note. Hey, I saw you won this award. Congratulations. Connect with people on a human level. I think if we do more of that, you will find that people will invite you in open up doors for you. And I’ll be honest, a lot of my success in theBar world is because of that, because of relationships. Someone thought of Juan Thomas, he’d be good for this. Let’s call him because I’ve learned this. I’ll close with this point. If you’re the best, if you’re the top lawyer in, but no one likes you, you know what people are going to do. They’re going to call the second best lawyer in town because you and I know hundreds of lawyers, you don’t have to refer me.

You can refer somebody else, especially upon our relationship. And so I think that’s critically important for young lawyers to understand is to build those and nurture those relationships. And candidly, you don’t do it always on a phone. We’ve gotten used to these devices. Sometimes we need to get together, have a cup of coffee or whatever your favorite drink is and get to know each other.

Amanda Arriaga:

Well, thank you for taking the time to talk to me. Our audience is going to love all your words of wisdom, and I’m looking forward to you coming to Austin so we can have that dinner.

Juan Thomas:

I look forward to it.

Amanda Arriaga:

Thank you so much.

Juan Thomas:

Thank you. Thank you for having me.